Kugamo
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Posts posted by Kugamo
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Heres the latest version of the map.
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8 hours ago, ID404NotFound said:
how does this map compare to farragus, the big map with segmented maints that people say they hate?
It is similar to Farragus in its layout (no association) but Shepard's main loop is roughly 348 tiles (97x77), and Farragus's is quite a bit larger: 484 tiles (133x109); meaning one loop on Shepard is about 140 tiles less (70% of Farragus's in length). In regards to the segmented maints, on Shepard there are some similar to Farragus, but the majority have multiple entrances and exits. Also unlike Farragus there are "deep maints" that run between modules (notably on the right, and upper sides of the station). In general Travel Times will still be longer than the box-like maps, but should be shorter than on Farragus, and the maints are a split between those found on the box-like and the ones on Farragus.
13 hours ago, Teebonesnek said:I don't play enough Space Station 13 to know about the finer details of maps but this looks great - I love idea of more glass to really feel the space station vibe and Cyberiad does feel rather crowded on large crews. I just hope there are enough of the signposts for departments that I don't get lost lol. Hopefully we'll see this in game soon
Edit: Is there a high-res image of the station like the one you've included? I'd love to look around the map
I've added more direction signs than we had on the testmerge last summer, they'll be at every bridge and in the center of most departments.
Still working on EVA in the blank area in the center of the station WIP :0)
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This is my proposal for the revival of the Shepard Station project. @Design Team (I am not sure who to ping, I'd appreciate some help in making them aware of this). I am interested in developing Shepard Station again and getting it added to the game, but I have read mixed opinions on the matter of adding another map to the game from some people and wish for a clear answer on whether or not the design team thinks itd be good for the game. We had a few days of tests on this map a while back now, and it had its challenges but I think the majority of the playerbase thought it was fun and an interesting map to play on.
The map has been updated to the latest version of our codebase, and has already been through a meticulous review process, and as a result is basically in a merge ready state.
Of the 4 maps currently in rotation 3 are of extremely similar layout, a central box hallway with spurs off it that house all the different departments. The design of Shepard Station was done in careful consideration of the current game's needs, but also with a unique take on game balance which informed its design.
My case study was the Cyberiad, which is about 1/3 maints. Originally, 7 years ago or so, the Cyberiad was less than 1/4 maints and with them all being more isolated. Over the years on the Cyberiad the maints have gotten more bloated and more connected, which I feel like is a worse outcome for the game.
So antags need maints, as a place to loose people following you, as well as a place far from too many eyes to get up to mischief. Larger and more interconnected maints only serve to increase foot traffic in these areas due to them being more of a destination and a shortcut. This has eroded the efficacy of the maints as a gameplay element, as well as segregated the antags from the rest of the players due to the uncanny effectiveness of the maints.
On Shepard I returned to a 1/4 maints ratio, and along with the rest of the station made them a whole lot more separated. This is probably the most contentious design element of shepard, so I took the time to explain my reasoning above. My intent with the design was to balance the smaller and less connected maints with longer travel times (as well as retractable space bridges, which I never got to implementing but would act as a further aide to antags [Can implement if needed]). I understand its a radical step, but I felt good taking it as I believe there isn't alot of difference in playstyles between the maps. And I think maps supporting a different playstyle would enliven the game greatly.
The maints are still connected, and you can make a grand circuit from engineering's lobby through science, and service to cargo. Theres a larger maint surrounding medbay and SouthWest Dorms too on the opposite side of the station as the aforementioned grand circuit. And lastly a diagonal cut from service to engineering's lobby through the center. Also there being many more seperate smaller areas of a similar volume to that of the cyberiad means each has a less chance of being searched or traveled through making each do their job better.
Anyone worrying about the travel times; I'd argue they are only an ever-present issue for sec, and I've taken the liberty of increasing the segway count to 4 as well as adding a shortcut for them through the command module. For the long travel times of late arrival scientists I've since added another hallway going directly east from engineering for this explicit purpose (but it lead to EVA, and dead ends in science for all other roles)
It's a larger map by a bout another 1/6 of the cyberiad's in turf count alone, but I think with paradise's pop its warranted (we might have to consider limiting it from being played on low pops). It also demands a different playstyle out of antags and sec, assigned patrols of areas probably being encouraged, as well as a more high stake field for antags, and the time to perform them in. Last but I think not a small point is that Shepard has more windows, its too easy to forget you're in space on other maps I feel, and with them you'll encounter it more often :P. 4 tile wide main hallway!!
Thanks for reading through all of this for those that did. I am excited about the new maptick-threading that we've gotten from the byond devs, and wouldn't be proposing readding shepard otherwise. I think with the new addition of the maints above the station, and the hallway to science from engi the map might play alot better. LMK what you all think, design team especially.
EDIT: I also removed all the lattices and nearby-station-areas from around the station, hopefully to drastically cut down on lighting costs.
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I much prefer the old new sprites rather than the latest version. Especially the reinforced walls, the extra stripes on top read really badly imho. Also the square pattern of dots on the latest version of the floors make it look like fabric, and is more distracting visually than the more oblique initial version. If it were up to me I'd stick with the unaltered initial versions.
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I like the idea of the planted shroom being the central node and only lesser shrooms spread from it and are dependant on it to exist. Then I think if they are in too high concentration having "spores" be something emitted from them as a nerf also, they could force walk and coughing from anyone who is not using internals. Beyond that their light output could be nerfed to be similar to a PDA light if slowdown isnt good enough alone.
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Despite it all I don't have hard feelings about what happened, I just don't want it to happen again. (We are all just trying to have fun here, no?) Alot went wrong in that round, and I cannot deny my part in it. I definitely didn't and still don't appreciate the hostility I received from others when it did, and although probably warranted to some degree... it wasn't necessary. IC and OOC. There is no round that I go into without the understanding that it might go awry in some way... But at the risk of repeating myself, having alot go wrong and then having the ultimate authority in game affirm and reenact the hostility directed toward me in a personal manner (without any charity to my side of things) was too much for me to say I enjoyed the round at all.
I expect to keep on playing on Paradise happily, and I really do appreciate your attention to this criticism.
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Admin(s) Key: unknown
Your ckey: Kugamo
Your Discord name: KugamoDate(s) of incident: 11/24/2020 ~ 12:00 AM GMT ~ 6:00 AM CST
Nature of complaint: misconduct
Brief description: Actions of CC officer in game questionable at best, insulting and LRP at worst.
Full description of events: I was playing captain at the time of this incident, I was demoted by a CC field officer. It was a really volatile round, the AI had been subverted and it and its borgs were doing a fantastic job of insuring no one un-subverted them. The AI was lawed to protect the interests of the syndicate people and to kill/hinder the interests of nanotrasen people, I dont remember the exact wording. So this was the situation as I found it when I joined as captain this round. Command was actively portraying themselves as syndicate so as to avoid the AIs wrath (which until after the round I interpreted some command member's use of comms to do this as genuine, I know call me dumb), and we were on RED due to confirmed syndicate agents aboard. Also the NTREP and magistrate after whispering to themselves invited themselves into my office and said that the HOP was the most likely subverter of the AI. So my confidence in the command staff was extremely minimal as a result.I dont remember the CC member's name exactly, but I do know it was a vox. Chikiyaya or something, forgive me but vox names are all so very similar.
My first task I took upon myself was to fix the AI, It must be said at the time I didnt fully understand that you had to purge the laws of borgs and AI before relawing them. Anyways I distinctly remember telling the gathered command personnel on the bridge after the RD suggested we just let the AI remain subverted, since its laws allowed it to not have to harm anyone and it wasnt doing so, that "I will demote you and anyone else that suggests that again". I said this because doing so would allow active agents to abuse the powers of the AI for their own interests and possibly against crew. I didnt explicitly state this reasoning at the time because I expected agents in the ranks, but my warning was clear. Then I died from lasers in the AI upload, but thats besides the point
My head was very much spinning trying to parse out how and what was happening with the borgs even though I reset their laws without purging them in the intervening time. There was alot of drama about what was going on and what to do about it over command comms between when I was revived and when eventually the NTREP or the Magistrate and the CE carded the AI. Among other things said over comms... When I explicitly asked RD hard questions about the AI and where it was and who had it and what was going on with them (RD is in charge of the AI), they responded with insults and general aversion to the entire situation. Either I wasnt paying attention very well, or there wasnt alot of communication between me and the other command members who were all trying to resolve the situation in their own ways. Which made me actively try harder to gain info from them. Anyways my point is that in the time after the AI was carded I clearly remember the CE saying that the RD was suggesting we do nothing about the AI AGAIN.
Once I understood the AI was on the bridge carded I went there and confirmed it was in the NTREP's possession, I then called for the RD to come to the bridge for demotion. I ordered their demotion on the record for insubordination and uncooperative attitude, because as I understood it they were actively advocating for the continuation of a subverted AI, neglecting their responsibility over the AI and were responding to my inquiries with insults and general hostility. Albeit probably not the best grounds for demotion, but the shit they were throwing in my direction on top of the chaos of the situation was enough for me to think them an agent or at worst incompotent. I demoted them infront of the command staff on the bridge in a big taser and disabler shoot out that was all too much drama.
10. The Captain may not fire any Head of Staff without reasonable justification (ie, incompetency, criminal activity, or otherwise any action that endangers/compromises the station and/or crew).
Now to the point: very late into the round a special operations officer appeared on the command comms out of nowhere without bolded text, in a traitors round... (I immediately thought voice synthesizer) I asked who the hell they were, and they replied something akin to that I was making myself look bad. Arrived without any notice in paper or PDA. They came seemingly from some correspondence between CC and the NTREP, of which I was never asked for comment or clarification. I was never talked to by the NTREP concerning the demotion, and from my memory never asked to. There was comms chatter about the incident briefly between the CE and me, which I cut short because it wasn't relevant and I didnt see any point in it outside of satisfying the CE's conscience. The CC officer appeared on the bridge, and then asked what happened to evidently the room, and a number of people replied. I tried giving my side about what happened, to which they responded "not from you, idiot" or something akin to that. Then they handcuffed me after telling me not to move, and after some urging from the CE replied I was being demoted. They then proceeded to strip me on the bridge infront of everyone down to my naked skin, handcuffed. And then gave me preachy advice about the whole thing while I was naked and handcuffed. I was then taken by the NTREP to the shuttle brig and left there buckled in a seat naked and handcuffed until the round ended.
I think the whole thing could have greatly benefited from some more communication from me admittedly to the rest of command, but especially between the NTREP and the Captain, and more than anything else the CC officer and the Captain themselves. I was never given a chance to give my side of things, and I would think IC CC would want to know the truth enough to protect their personnel if possible. Even without IC justification for hearing the captain's side of things, disallowing any counter narrative after making no attempt to gain it and then proceeding to handcuff and strip me infront of everyone was needlessly insulting. I just think it was kinda fucked, even if I was in the wrong for ordering the RDs demotion, the manner in which the CC character acted was LRP at best, and insulting at worst.
I get that people thought I ordered the RDs demotion out of spite of their demeanor, and yea to some degree it was (which I have to own) but acting like that was the only possible explanation of my actions was a bit disappointing. I was being somewhat oppressive in my orders and my communications this round, and I was so for a purpose.. I was making my orders clear and readable so those who were agents would have to oust themselves in not following them. To my understanding alot of them could be agents, and because I was unfamiliar with how lawing the borgs works... I briefly trusted the borgs word over that of command for a time and had the CE thoroughly searched because of it... after which they seemingly took it upon themselves to treat me like a baby child who only knows how to be a dumbass asshole to everyone and as a result gave my actions no charity whatsoever. So in a way I made an enemy of myself to them.
At the end of it all it turned out the RD was actually a cling traitor, which doesnt exactly justify my reasoning in the matter... But hell if it doesn't take some of the sting out of it all. I really think actively ignoring my side of the whole the thing by the CC officer was unfortunate, and I feel like I have lost standing in the community as a result of this round. It was like my fate had been already decided before the CC officer showed up, and that without my side of things. I can only assume there was a loaded fax sent to CC without my side of the story, or the command comms exchange with the CE about my reasoning was listened to (in which I was purposefully obtuse because I still misunderstood the CE as a traitor because of their touting of syndicate objectives over comms, also due to their hostility towards me). If I could do it all again I probably would take a different tact, but I still would want some greater measure of impartiality in CC officers when it comes to demoting captains. I really felt like a manufactured pariah, and yeah thats why I made this complaint. Thanks for reading.
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I like this idea, the constable role’s hud could maybe set monitor and otherwise be read only. I think having a continuous presence of sec in each department would be neat too.
If plaid well they could help sec with info, and act as a mediating force for lesser incidents. I dont think they should have their own comms channel though imho, but it might better facilitate not bumrushing vamp callouts in maint.
I would love to see this put in game.
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I made more arts.
How Plasmamen be, Kewe, and how a vox can use consoles being so SHORT.
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This is a very useful guide, beating all the lavaland monsters is a challenge I hope to conquer one day. Thanks for writing this.
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The real plasmaman meta
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Not a bad idea however something that might be a detriment to it. During station emergencies where Medbay will inevitably get a massive backlog of patients wouldn't this just increase the time it would take for critical patients who are standing as well as heavily injured patients to be treated and cause an even worse backlog for Medical? The concept isn't bad if there were very few situations where disaster strikes and you get a large influx of patients, however there are more times than a few where you don't have much time to interact with your patient before pushing them out the door to go to the next one.
Also, tying it to whether or not a player is lying down or standing up all treatments are going to have extended time since if the patient refuses to lay down (Doctors don't have stun batons after all to force them horizontal) its going to punish the doctor more by tying up their time with a non-cooperative patient which, actually happens more than I'd like to admit. I recall a Security Officer who couldn't even wait for us to close her incision from surgery before hopping up, dashing out of the OR and going back on patrol. They didn't come back until ten minutes later after they had lost quite a bit of blood.
Well you dont have to be a sec officer to buckle someone to a seat or bed, but I agree it would be more deadly in emergency situations. But when aren't emergency situations deadly? It would cause medical to work differently of course, maybe they would need more cots etc. All in all though I would like to think it would add more to the game than it would take away.
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One thing that could be done that could increase immersion and cooperation with medical staff is this: make it so that when treating standing patients theres a big wait time for any medical action preformed, thus for timely heals you have to lie down or be laid down. The idea is that this will give more value to medical players, and add some immersion to the medbay gameplay. The only real thing that differentiates medbay players and non medbay players in terms of healing is access to the meds. (not mentioning surgery and sleeper running) Maybe we can get some use out of those cot things that are always thrown to the wayside. It could force patients to be accepted into medbay in a more organized manner, so that they arent shunned for being doctor ignoring heal-stealers.
TLDR: Add time to all medical actions for standing patients, no time to all medical actions for lying down patients.
Let me know what you all think.
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This is what I have made so far, but I want to do more character portraits.
We will see. Kewe is an IG character of mine, and the green shirt was a baldie who was very wholesome man who just wanted to get his poor mousie help, ignore the other one.
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You won't catch me arguing with the server owner over whats what, but I just thought it should be known what was found. All the same, I made the changes to the map and removed the HOP for the Vault and Upload. Let me know if there are any other discrepancies. IAA *cough* *cough* that one I feel is also contentious, but who knows.
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@Leanfrog I have gotten conflicting reports about this, On discord people in the past and recently have said that HOP does have access to those locations, having tested it in game. If they shouldn't then I would remove them, though to my knowledge it is accurate as is.
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Oh nice suggestion, I see how that could be confusing. For the gateway, I didnt include it as major because it wasnt explicitly mentioned in def on the wiki. But Its pretty clearly a command area, and so it makes sense being major. Being that I have no good reason not to, I'll mark it as major. Also I didnt mark ntrep and blueshields as major for the same reason, though logically they should be. I'll change those to major as well.
As far as marking the IAA full access, to be honest it would be a pain. I havent marked the full access for a number of roles for pretty much that reason. But also for the reason it would -arguably- diminish intelligibility with clutter. Most low pop roles I didnt mark, so I will just stay in keeping with that for IAA.
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If you have been on the discord in the past few days you might have caught me developing this map, I thought I would make a forum topic just so there is a centralized location for discussing the choices I took in making it. Since its a map of areas that are to be considered trespass or major trespass there is some room for discussion.
The map's the latest version can be found here -> https://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/File:AccessTrespassMap.png
Here is the wiki entry for major trespass : "Being in a restricted area without prior authorization. This includes Security areas, Command areas (including EVA), the Engine Room, Atmos, or Toxins Research." So that is all pretty clear, though these are some areas I think ought to be considered: Gateway [command], ntrep and blueshield Offices [command], Surgery [dangerous tools], Virology [pathogens], and lastly Xenobiology [dangerous]. I made some judgement calls on all of those and people on the discord helped me decide as well. I would love to hear your thoughts!
Also I am not acutely familiar with every role's access, and I am sure I forgot some roles somewhere or other mistakes. If you notice any part of the map in terms of access that is wrong I would love that feedback as well. NOTE: I decided not to mark out the full range of access for single person roles so as not to clutter the map. Though for command roles I still want to remain accurate.
Thanks!
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So yeah, I made maps of all the station's Cabling, piping, and disposals. As of now I added them to the page 'Maintenance' and replaced the redirect to Locations with a 'see also:'.
https://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Maintenance
Would making these maps publicly available be a detriment to the game? I am sure we'll see more creative ways of sabotage with them known and easily accessible. Maybe only link to it from the engineers tab??? So do we even want them on the wiki? Otherwise I might just make a post here and call it there.
But that is also a better question I have; Where and how should they be integrated into the wiki if doing so is alright? I think probably the engineers/atmospherics pages, then also possibly antags?
Also tell me if you think they could be improved in any way, Thanks.
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NSS Arrhodes - Shepard Station [PROPOSAL]
in Code Discussion
Posted
https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/21083
Shepard was approved for TM by the design team!