flimflamm
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Posts posted by flimflamm
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I honestly feel like who Masks is a very very important element to the success of a cult round.
And 9 times out of 10, the mask is a new cultist who saw the button and wondered what it did.
Yea. I was reading the code and it turns out the Mask has a lot of abilities I've never seen before, like giving special names to acolytes. I've always wanted to mask but I feel like unless I put in the hard work as a cultist then it will all be futile.
A high energy and knowledgeable mask really could make a big difference though
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So I think that I've correctly modified the "pray to narsie" ability in order to create a "commune" cult ability that should function more or less like a communicate rune would, just without any actual runes.
Here is the original code of the "pray to nar'sie" cult ability:
/obj/cult_viewpoint/verb/pray_to_mask()
set category = "Cult"
set desc = "Pray to your god"
set name = "Pray to Nar'Sie"
set src in usr
var/input = stripped_input(usr, "Please choose a message to say to your god.", "Pray to Nar'Sie", "")
if(!input)
return
cult_log("[key_name(usr,0)](Pray):[input]")
to_chat(owner, "You pray to Nar'Sie: [input]")
for(var/mob/spirit/spirit in spirits)
to_chat(spirit, "[get_display_name()] prays : [input]")
As far as I can tell all this ability actually does is make a "cult_log" under "pray" (I'm guessing these are related to actual logs) and then delivers the pray message to all spirits, which I'm guessing includes the mask?
Regardless, I've left those parts intact, and simply added a slightly modified line stolen directly from the communicate rune proc which can be found here:
https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradis ... es.dm#L525
Here is the modified code with the alterations highlighted in red:
/obj/cult_viewpoint/verb/talk_to_cult()
set category = "Cult"
set desc = "Communicate with your cult"
set name = "Commune"
set src in usr
var/input = stripped_input(usr, "Please choose a message to tell to the other acolytes.", "Voice of Blood", "")
if(!input)
return
var/F = investigate_subject2file("cult")
if(!F)
return
to_chat(F, "[time2text(world.timeofday,"hh:mm")] \ref[usr] ([usr.x],[usr.y],[usr.z]) || [usr] communicates: [input]
")
cult_log("[key_name(usr,0)](Cultcomms):[input]")
to_chat(owner, "You Commune With the Cult: [input]")
for(var/mob/spirit/spirit in spirits)
to_chat(spirit, "[get_display_name()] communes : [input]")
Basically I added the line that I believe checks to see if players are not cult in order determine whether or not they will recieve the message, along with renaming the ability itself along with the tag-lines that seem to go into the logs. Of course this is my first attempt at coding in SS13 so there's a hgh probability that I'm missing one or multiple things in order to have this work. I may try and figure out how to test it, but if any coders read this could you please point out my errors?
Thanks!
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Add maintenance contraband.
Is xenoarch working BTW?
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I was thinking about the ramifications that this might have.
Summon cultist is a super powerful spell but seldom actually used. Since cultists cannot scream for help when captured to their fellow cultists there's a good chance they get deconverted before the cult can get around to freeing and summoning them. A really competent mask would order three cultists to always stay put in a remote base somewhere and give them the names of any cultists in need of rescue, but it's a lot of work for one ghost to manage.
Organizing covert conversion attacks becomes easier. People who are good at converting can be given information on vulnerable targets, etc... More early conversion would be enabled by an inherent coms network
Combating security in force becomes much easier, as now all cultists can be made aware of significant security movements, on the fly, and can therefore actually coordinate against them.
It's actually entirely possible that this change will make cult OP. Interesting to think though, that changing nothing to the mechanics of cult magic and instead just giving them communication could make them decidedly OP (only one way to find out). Perhaps this is due to some intrinsic existing broken-ness of cult as they are. Cultists can either be expert and OP or novice and complete failures. As it stands now most cultists tend to be complete failures, and so we do not perceive cult to be OP overall. Maybe giving coms will make cult magic too easy to use for noobs and therefore OP overall, but there's only one way to find out!
I really hope that this change would be easy enough code wise that one of the saint-like coders has the time to give it a shot.
P.S: If any coder has interest in this, I reckon the simplest way to do this would be to take the existing "pray to narsie" cult ability and change the effect to produce whatever the effect of the communication rune is. The coms rune can just stay as it is and be superfluous.
P.P.S: Imma probably scour the github and see how it looks
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At the least, we should try them I think.
Last three or so cult rounds I've played, all my cult friends got caught before research was even completed... which is just... ugh.
Ive taken to grabbing a communication rune and sending out a single message early on with my identity my word and instructions not to blow cover until we have words, also to reply with their identity, their word, and to not use PDA messaging, which they always seem to fucking do
. But I hate having to do so because it wastes one of the precious starting talisman points.If my cover isn't blown by an anxious mask popping lights ontop of me or randomly dropping construct shells on me, then it's another cultists PDA'ing me. Cover is extremely important for cult until they get research and some numbers, and anxiety runs high in cult members because they always (at least me) feel so disconnected from everyone else even if you have a stack of coms talismans in your pocket. The mask is seldom on the ball enough to actually coordinate, and has a good chance of not knowing how even if they had the mental energy.
I wonder how hard this would be to pull off code wise.
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Cult is the easiest antag, if you`ve the convert rune, you`re gonna rule the station with no effort at all...
When people see glowing runes, they tend to blabber. Once the cult is discovered it's not so easy to get away with conversions.
Mind shield implants are being used by valid-hunters. Just last night after a failed conversion attempt (due to mind shield), the dude stood up when the stun wore off, pulled out a signalling device, and blew up the toxins bomb in his bag, killing myself and two other cultists (which ended the cults chances of success due to widespread incompetence within the cult)
You say cult is the easiest to play but it's actually the hardest. 1/10 players at most seem to know how to do cult research, and most people cannot read the wiki fast enough to learn it in a single shift.
Don't get me wrong, cult is probably the most powerful antag group because of the ridiculous shit they are able to do with clever magic station tech combinations (see: infinite golem cult army, humanized monkey cult resurrection, rune teleport network, etc...), but they are pretty much the most complex, making the learning curve the biggest challenge facing any cultist.
The real reason why as cult you cannot 'rule the station' with only the convert rune is because everyone you convert is more likely than not going to not even want a tome, and if they take one they are likely to have no idea how to use it properly. Better communication is actually probably the very best solution for this, as even mentors and the mask can hardly be arsed to consistently tutor novice cultists up the curve. This would also enable group research (two cultists working on the same word discovery from opposite ends of the tome notes).
How many times have you seen the cult dominate the station without using nar'sie to do so?
Constructs remain ineffably underused, advanced tech and open cult warfare seldom appears, and when it does is lack luster. All because people are ignorant of the possibilities.
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EDIT: I wwanted to see how hard it would be to actually pull off the coms network bit, so I have attempted to rework the pray to nar'sie ability into a communicate with cult ability by adapting it along with a piece of code from the communicate rune. Here are the results (a coder who could look this over would be much appreciated (the red is the shit I added or changed, the light blue are my minimal annotations):
/obj/cult_viewpoint/verb/talk_to_cult()
set category = "Cult"
set desc = "Communicate with your cult"
set name = "Commune"
set src in usr
var/input = stripped_input(usr, "Please choose a message to tell to the other acolytes.", "Voice of Blood", "") ////user input box
if(!input) ///////// if no input
return ///////// ends process
var/F = investigate_subject2file("cult") ///// gets cult status
if(!F) /////// if not cult
return ////////// ends process
to_chat(F, "[time2text(world.timeofday,"hh:mm")] \ref[usr] ([usr.x],[usr.y],[usr.z]) || [usr] communicates: [input]
")[/color] ///// im not sure if this is related to a log or the function to send the message to cultists
for(var/datum/mind/H in ticker.mode.cult)
if(H.current)
to_chat(H.current, "[cultName]: [input]") /////// not sure if this is actually the thing that sends the message to cultists or not
cult_log("[key_name(usr,0)](Cultcomms):[input]") //// pretty sure this is for logs
to_chat(owner, "You Commune With the Cult: [input]") ///// pretty sure for logs
for(var/mob/spirit/spirit in spirits) ///// for ghosts
to_chat(spirit, "[get_display_name()] communes : [input]") //// for ghosts
I'm not positive, but I may or may not need to include this line which comes from the communicate rune (not sure if i grabbed the line that actually produces the message) :
for(var/datum/mind/H in ticker.mode.cult)
if(H.current)
to_chat(H.current, "[cultName]: [input]")
///// DOES THE ABOVE CHECK SEND MESSAGES TO THE CULTISTS IF THEY HAVE A 'CULT MIND' OR SOMETHING????
I'll try to keep this short and sweet. I heard tell that cult is being reworked by someone, but until then these two suggestions could drastically alter how cult rounds play out, possibly for the better.
Suggestion 1: Make "Commune with other cultists" (communicate rune) an inherent spell available to all cultists.
Reasoning and justification: other antags have dedicated communication and they still have trouble organizing. At the beginning of rounds when organization is most important, cultists have a laborious and costly mechanic to communicate, or else must go off hunting for other cultists on foot or do do cult research somewhere alone. This way strategy can be discussed, coordination achieved, early words will surely be shared (instead of a noob cultist not sharing their words cause of ignorance), and essentially this gives cult a really big leg up to help them act more quickly early on and achieve more complex stratagems. rather than just get 9 cult and summon nar nar.
I have little doubt that this change would be simple code wise.
Suggestion 2: Instead of only three cultists at the start, the number of starting cultists could be a formula based on population. 3 cult against 120 crew members is a very tall order.
Up to 80 players 3 cult would be enough, then for every additional 20 players, there could be one extra starting cult player, but without any additional unique words (so they still only get three words to start).
This change might not be so easy code wise, but i reckon it's far from impossible.
In summation these two minor changes could drastically impact how the cult plays out. Infinite communication would allow experienced cult players to directly tutor novice cult members as well, which in and of itself could tip the scales.
Thoughts?
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Ahhh shit, I probably missed ya!
<3 Good times man, good times. I ain't been able to play much lately but just saw this thread and had to wish you good luck!
P.S: Please use all the deception and manipulation skills that SS13 has taught you and rise to the top! Show them the true meaning of robustness!
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Yes, but the box people would be required to have a box at all times, which would put them under a lot less scrutiny (as they get harmed whenever they are in the light). Additionally, dragging a closet is suspicious, whereas being in a box that is vital to your functioning is not immediately so....
True, but opening the box requires you to be in melee range of the box, which allows you to be easily stunprodded or whatever. You do raise a good point that the box does need to be opened in order to open doors, so I guess that would cut down on some of the stuff they can get away with...
Things like being able to carry guns or wielded chainsaws freely without anybody knowing, being nearly impossible to stun at range as the box blocks tasers, being nearly impossible to detain by security (unless tape guns were added), and being quite difficult to track by the AI are a few of the things that I thought of. As I said above, yes you can also gain these abilities when you're in a movable box (something I'm still not that okay with), but with box people there is literally no way to tell anything is amiss, whereas other boxes are mildly suspicious.
If examining the box would also display its occupants, then that would probably fix most of the problems I've listed here.
You make some really great points here...
There are a bunch of mechanics that leap to mind that ideally I would like to build in to the box items I'm attempting to create:
- boxes would be created by applying an ID card to a special item named "compressed personnel box" (or something), which would apply the job tag to the box sprite and name and title tags to the box object name, perhaps making them track-able on camera networks as well.
- cardboard boxes currently have 10 hp, making them very easy to destroy (normal closets have 100 hp). I would increase the hp of the personnel box to at least 40 and have it be made described as constructed from plasteel or metal
- When an electricity based stun or tazer bolt hits the box, it should electrify it and simulate a stun by rendering the occupants temporarily immobile
- When these boxes are examined, an "external bio-sensor display panel" should relay the same information on the occupants that would be displayed if they were examined normally in full sight
- Doors could be opened via the access of the box's occupants
So to add my two cents.Was a shadow person few rounds ago as RD. Not by choice, but Experimentors RNGesus blessed me with that power... --snip--.
It's an interesting challenge right?
This thread makes playing as a shadow in a box seem way more OP and functional than actually trying to play as a shadow does... Indeed being inside a box does not make shadow people heal, and to be honest I am worried that if they did then they would begin to lean toward the OP side. I'm still working on learning how tiered object codes and functions work in BYOND code, but if I can figure it out I will try to implement this function to the custom box code for testing...
Man, this is probably the most snowflake race I've seen yet.Seriously though, why would NanoTrasen ever hire a race that can not work properly because they have to live in the dark or otherwise in the box.
That's like hiring a blind guy as Drive School Teacher.
And with the addition of Drask that already happened, this is never going to get implemented any time soon (Fox™).
Also, the ominous thing you mention as "RP" will probably be only used by 30-40% of the guys playing that race.
And jesus christ, the box mechanic, that'll give people another reason to scream at Security trying to searching them "HELP SHITCURITY, THEYRE TAKING MY BOX!!!!!!!".
And man, theese guys as Vampires or Changelings are going to be OP as fuck when in maintenance tunnels (where they usually are) considering their full on free NV and regeneration.
To be honest I mostly wanted to see how people would react to the idea. I've made some pretty questionable suggestion threads in my sparse SS13 career....
Realistically I think I'm hoping for a re-work of shadow people and or for possibly the implementation of these boxes (as an admin spawn only item most likely) because even though they are snow-flakey as hell, I find them entertaining and it would be neat to have possible access to them as I live out my own shadow-box gimmick RP lifestyle...
Regarding your final objection about OPness in maint, you're ignoring the fact that even in dark environments, simply having a flashlight turned on and in your pocket is enough to absolutely dominate a shadow person. You can chase after them and what can they do except use some sort of ranged weapon on you while fleeing? If they chase you, you simply run and they will continuously take damage from your light sources. That said, the other day a vampire wasted me in maintenance with incredible ease. He handily used his vamp abilities to disable me and beat me to within an inch of my life and then spawned bats on-top of me to ensure my death. He foolishly ran away, not finishing the job entirely, and the bats flew off chasing someone else, and I slowly convalesced in the dark maintenance area that I was left for dead in. After about 5 minutes of regeneration, I was able to stand up and continue on with my shadowy existence... That is about as OP as the regeneration will ever be, which is to say, not very OP.
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Ehhhhh.
I guess while a harmless enough Idea, iunno.... -//snip//-
If you want to be a shadow person, I wouldn't mind balancing them; or finishing them; but as a start race? No... -//snip//-Moving boxes certainly is a bit silly... Maybe more than a bit silly... Years of SS13 has likely warped my understanding of what even constitutes "silly"...
That said, a tiny bit of silliness never hurt SS13. They key point here I guess is "tiny bit", given the fact that most people would not want to inflict boxed life upon themselves, let alone pay 100 karma to do so, it's not as if you would see them very often at all...
Logically speaking, sure a suit of armor would keep you dark, but regrettably if we coded that in then shadow people would basically be too strong given that they could walk into maintenance at any time and take off their armor in order to regenerate; there is no cost/risk. Lore wise this could also be answered with some invention; shadow people are able to heal in darkness because they constantly draw energy from dark space in order to survive, not simply because it is touching their skin. When they have no dark space around them at all then they cease to draw energy and their body degrades. Boxes provide just enough dark space around the shadow person that they are able to draw enough energy to maintain their current condition, but not enough to improve it.
As for why NT would even hire shadow people in the first place, I was thinking that lore wise they could be explained to be entirely unnatural creations of NT's science department, composed of a collection of once test subjects, and therefore already having been employed...
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Depending on the job, not everyone would play "normally", furthermore shadow people don't require every light to be broken, all they need is at least one tile of darkness for regeneration fi theya re unwilling to go to maintenance, and if they're alone in their work-space then this is no grand issue at all...constantly healing doesn't automatically mean you're not going to be useless. and if they're going to just play normally and duck out of the light every once in a while to heal, what even is the point? (other than to piss off people watching crew monitors) in reality, no, they're not going to do this, they're just going to break all the lights in their workplace and demand that everyone stumble around in darkness, sorta like how shadowpeople already do
Some or even total vision is not a balance breaking buff..."natural degrees" yes, a microscopic difference that isn't near enough that they don't ultimately end up using an external light source anyway. kinda different versus literal night vision.
Did you know that once injected with shadow mutation enzyme the resulting condition known as "shadow person" is genetically irreversible? After so many years of foolishly greedy Xenobiological research a small population of permanently disabled employees has amassed, and finally in an effort to recuperate monetary losses on all their years of training, they decided to use decorative plasteel boxes in order to enable them some capacity to perform work."we're going to rp it good!"
"no, we're going to constantly damage ourselves because it's literally the only way we're going to contribute to gameplay!"
one or the other. you dont even get to use rp as an excuse because, again, people with such a condition wouldn't even work here. but this is paradise roleplay, or in other words "lets do it because it's cute, tehee~"
So what you're saying is that shadow people are going to spend all their time valid-hunting in maintenance?unless, of course, the shadowling carries around a weapon too, which of course they will because they're going to be in maintenance all the time.
Giving up the 100 karma proves that you're capable of playing such a difficult race to survive as and would be more likely to engage in the kind of RP that makes Box People interesting, mysterious, and enigmatic.LOL
just like vox players right? except, no, vox players dont do shit to roleplay it outside a few minor vocal quirks.
Clearly you've never heard of the inviolate... I'm faxing the Arkships about this...
Well aside from cuffing them and then putting them in their own box for dragging, there's this for the holding!speaking of, how exactly would one go about arresting one of your shadowpeople? as someone whos had to deal with a shadowperson cultist before, it was fucking awful for everyone involved, and that didn't even involve a brig sentence. Ignoring the blaring issue that we're going to have to break the brig lights just to hold them, which not only will be incredibly agitating (and dangerous as hell) to anyone who doesnt have built in nightvision, are we just going to have to resort to nearly killing them dragging them through the hall (or of course run the length of the station through maint tunnels in pitch darkness which is always delightful)? or should we just expect them to play nice and not run away as we drag their box through the hall, which naturally they won't just so they have something to bitch about (see vox refusing to tell you what pocket their nitrogen is in when searched so when it gets taken off they can scream about us murdering them)
I guess if a box person wants to break the law then they risk shit going wrong for them.
There's no reason that you have to work in total darkness... The boxes are what enable this to be the case... Obviously nobody is going to expect a majority of their co-workers to suffer to serve only one person... If a security guard winds up killing a shadow person in the process of arrest due to light exposure, then so what? Clone it? Anyone who spends a crap ton of karma on a disabled character is going to be capable of accepting sudden and tragic round endings.all i'm seeing here is Vox 2.0 except even worse to have to deal with and with free nightvision, for no reason other than teehee look at my cute boxes <3. this will be nothing but a hassle for everyone involved to have to put up with, and to be honest i'm reeeeally not looking forward to having to work in complete darkness because I had the misfortune of getting stuck with a shadowperson.
Firstly there are light switches located everywhere, secondly a shadow person can endure more than a few seconds of light. I'm quite confident I would set up the engine, albiet in a longer period of time, completely by myself, leaving all the lights on, and with only a box.Engineering: Completely shit out of luck if you get stuck with one, gonna have to break all the lights because pretty much every engineering action takes a couple of seconds to do.
First of all, you can move 20 corpses at once with a box if you want, you simply put them in the box with you, secondly, if a shadow person surgeon wants to do surgery on me in a dark environment, then great, i don't really give a shit, I'm just thankful someone is there to fix me up. A paramedibox would be downright effective.Medical: Cant pull people in boxes, so sit around and wait for dying people to limp to you. Surgery is the same problem as Engineering with the action timers, so tell all your coworkers to fuck themselves and break the lights and operating console because you absolutely HAVE to play a shadowperson. Medical would be so fun to deal with all the lights being gone, by the way.
I've maxed research on my own, with the lights left on, all while doing the cute hello kitty style RP such as you have described about a dozen times, with zero complaints, and no need to smash out any of the lights in science.Science: This already happens anytime some idiot goes shadowperson, and even with science being as low intensity as it is its still annoying to put up with. But with default race shadowpeople, science will be bathed in darkness all the time, which will work great for when science gets converted to the cult like it does every cult round
If people want to go through all the hassle of being box security or box command then let them. It cannot be any worse than the rampant incompetence that is already widespread on the station. Until you've experienced a no-legged blind one armed epileptic captain, I'm not sure you understand how frustrating some people can be as it is already. I'll take a 100+ karma earning box person RD any day over one that doesn't know how to complete research.Security: YOU ACTUALLY SPRITED SECURITY BOXES. YOU INTEND FOR SHADOWPEOPLE TO PLAY SECURITY. WHY?
Command: Our command regulars are useless enough without the extra excuse of having to be in a box constantly. I'm sure it'll be delightful for Blueshields to look after too.
When it comes to being a box security person, step one, open box, step two, shoot tazer, step three, cuff subject, step four, put subject in box with you, step five, deposit in brig. It's doable if you know what you're doing...
Basically, you're taking your own personal gimmick, asking for it to be turned into a whole playable race with the added bonus of night vision, and ignoring the fact that you're going to perform awfully as one and make the round worse for all who have to deal with you. But it has a decent chance of going through, because heehee cute x3
It might be partly my own gimmick, but really it's just a combination of two pre-existing gimmicks, boxes and shadow persons. It's a kind of compound gimmick, you see! Your doomsday predictions of mass light smashings and robust maintenance valid-ing are not the totally cute and cuddly vision that I had in mind, Tee-hee~
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I can just imagine the first day of these rolling out.
100 ahelps of "GREYTIDE MCGEE STOLE MY BOX."
My reply would be: "Stuff happens you know? That's really an IC issue, hurry up and run into maintenance and break a light bulb! Guess you'll have to live out your days in an old cruddy plain cardboard box that you can make for yourself".
IC'ly though, all the shadow person needs to do is inform the crew of the theft and I'm sure they would be more than eager to assist in recovering it. I plan to make it have the name of the original occupant labeled on it's item name and in the description as well.
Having a very high karma cost would also ensure that people aren't yoinking boxes left and right and that the players who do choose to inflict boxed life upon themselves would likely be more competent than your average grey-tider and much less likely to want or need to get admin assistance.
In the dozen or so rounds that I have made myself into a box person, I have actually had a surprisingly easy time not being box jacked and even in the one case where it did occur, I easily survived and simply made a back up box from maintenance cardboard. To be honest I enjoy the challenge and thrill of such risks, but I can see how not everyone might feel the same. I guess it's important to note that this race is very mechanically challenging to simply survive with. It's honestly simply a curse which challenges your existence and functionality in exchange for an affinity to darkness and a pretty pretty box.
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I'd rather not have a race of sentient boxes aboard the station, thanks. Having a race that would be required to be inside a box would lead to all kinds of abusable situations and would add a tonne of difficulty to the game for the non-box-people players.
I'm guessing you're referring to the ability of boxes to conceal identities and move around corpses. In a way I agree with you, that boxes can be used for nefarious deeds, but so too can closets, and the boxes that already exist in-game. Concealing your identity is as easy as a borrowed, stolen, or fake ID of any kind and a face mask of many kinds.
While I can envision a scenario where a boxed race would make boxes less suspicious and therefore more exploitable in one way, more often I end up envisioning the fact that anyone can open a box to check it's occupants at any time, and whenever a door needs to be opened, or anything interacted with, the box must also open. The most likely avenue of exploitation that I can think of would be people murdering box people in the maintenance shafts that they would all likely frequent in order to simply enter their box and impersonate them.
What kind of exploitation do you envision? Perhaps a solution could be that when these fancy boxes are examined, their description would display a list of humanoid occupant visible identities?
Keep in mind that this hypothetical boxed race would not be very common.
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Oh my sweet lord make this a thing, even if just for the boxes. They are ADORABLE.
Flattery will get you EVERYWHERE with box people
. Their vanity is surpassed only by their emotional fragility!It's evolving into a bit of a pet project of mine. Currently I need to figure out a way to adapt the existing box code in a way that does not involve copy/pasting it for every job.
I'm thinking of creating a new item called a compressed box that shadow people would spawn with in their hands and when activated would read their job tag and spawn the appropriate box on-top of them, this way i can theoretically get the boxes in game on a locally hosted station without having to hardcode shadow people as a spawn-able race... I'm totally new to BYOND code so it's a headache at the moment but i'm making progress!
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The sec box is one that I'm iffy about. I used the color pallet from a security closet and until I actually see it brought to life in game, I'm not sure whether or not it will clearly look like a sec box or not. I will see what I can do about putting a hat on it. (actually I tried to find a siren sprite but i could not, and I also need to swap the wardens box with the actual wardens hat decal)
I made a lot of these sprites in a relatively short period of time, and as a result I think some of them are un-refined and inadequate. Don't hesitate to point out any box that is not up to the fancy standards i have aimed for with some other boxes, I want to improve them and so I need to identify the unappealing ones. If you have an idea to improve a box, like a sec hat on the sec box, please share your idea!
Right now I'm slowly digesting how the existing cardboard code works in order to figure out a way to efficiently adapt it to accommodate the new skins. Any advice or assistance in that regard would be highly welcomed.
P.S, regarding the over-the-top fancy-ness of these boxes, given that shadow people must interact with most other people through a box, it needs to really be visually appealing in order to give the player a feeling of prestige. For this reason, don't hesitate to tell me if a box, or even all of them, look ugly. It won't hurt my shadowey feelings!
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Somehow I managed to finish the sprites for every possible job (I think) and managed to format them into a DMI file. Here's a paint image of them all : Can you identify all the jobs related to the boxes below? How do they look? (if anyone wants the DMI file to look at, ask or send a PM)
It's a fairly enjoyable to me so i reckon I'm going to try and write the code that would make these boxes working (pretty sure it's a matter of copying many times the code of the original cardboard box and modifying it for each sprite).
Seriously though, how do they look!?
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It's actually no biggie, that's right!haha totally, they just passively regenerate the two most prominent damage types in the game, no biggie right?
If you think passive brute and burn healing in total darkness is the be all and end all of buffs, try actually playing as a shadow person (it's not very fast healing). If a shadow person robusted you in maintenance or something, i don't know what to say man. Turn on a light?
"Balance wise being a box person would be more of a burden than a boon, but roleplay wise it is fun, challenging, and interesting."
This alone would be an automatic "no" on most rp servers. Why, exactly, would people like this be hired? Even in a non-RP sense, you're promoting a race that would be completely fucking useless as most jobs as they'd die without their boxes on. This would just waste job slots.
I'm confused now. Is it that shadow people are too strong or is it that they are too useless?
In reality shadow people can get away with spending stretches of time in the light, taking damage all the while, and finally retreating to darkness to regenerate. In these periods of time, just about every job becomes feasible. For the jobs that would be very difficult to perform mainly from a box, there is a light switch in just about every room on SS13.
For instance, as a box person yesterday, I had to get surgery. The good surgeon darkened one of the surgery rooms for me and we had no problems...
Large karma paywall or not, you're suggesting a race with PASSIVE BRUTE/BURN REGENERATION AND BUILT IN NIGHTVISION. Additionally, cardboard boxes preventing light damage would give the antag shadowlings a way to travel through lit areas without issue, which is a buff they totally do not need. Did you even think about this?
Currently boxes function as they are described in this thread, yes, even for shadow-lings. Did you not know this?
Furthermore, night vision is not an extremely powerful mechanic. Many races, such as vulpakin, have natural degrees of night vision. Giving natural night vision as one of the solitary boons of this proposed race is really not that impactful balance wise.
To conclude, you wildly over-estimate both the strength and the weakness of shadow people. They are not completely useless in lit environments and they are also not over powered in darkness. Sure they would win a fist fight in a dark maintenance shaft, or could convalesce from some surface wounds, but if you fight with a weapon of any kind against a shadow person in maintenance then you are going to kill them as easily as any other humanoid. When it comes to light exposure, yes it can be fatal, but you can open and close the box for actions and not be exposed to light for long enough to take any damage at all, or only take absolutely minimal damage, making most jobs I can think of capable of being performed.
The point of Box People is not to spend your karma on something powerful. Giving up the 100 karma proves that you're capable of playing such a difficult race to survive as and would be more likely to engage in the kind of RP that makes Box People interesting, mysterious, and enigmatic.
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It seems that the vision impairment is not functional on shadow people when exposed to light, which I won't complain about!
I started doing some sprite art for boxes for fun, how do they look? (probably hard to see cause of pixel ratios or something)
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Shadow people - A race (currently available through xenobiology) which takes brute and burn damage when exposed to any light source, and is healed for brute and burn when exposed to darkness. (http://nanotrasen.se/wiki/index.php/Shadow_people). They are underused and in some ways unfinished, and so they are prime for re-appropriation.
Shadow people are a cool race as a concept, but they are pretty much unplayable (or so we thought) for several reasons. The main reason is the constant need for darkness, which results in the smashing of lights, which in turn pisses off the rest of the crew. The solution to this problem is boxes (hence "Box People", which sounds cooler than shadow people). When a shadow person is in a box, they are neither exposed to darkness, nor light, and so they take no damage while being able to move freely in any well lit areas. Boxes can have names applied to them with hand labelers, and can also be colored by colorful reagent, which is useful for identification and roleplay.
The second main issue with shadow people is that they have no natural ability to see in the dark. One simple solution to this problem is optical meson scanners. Mesons give shadow people the ability to see perfectly in darkness making them able to navigate freely in dark environments...
With only a box (or cardboard sheets for a box) and optical meson scanners as starting items, shadow people would actually be highly playable, albeit more difficult than the average race. They have a narrow and singular advantage of healing brute and burn in darkness, and aside from that being forced to live in a box is a cute but debilitating vulnerability. Balance wise being a box person would be more of a burden than a boon, but roleplay wise it is fun, challenging, and interesting.
Using meson scanners and card-board boxes as spawning items would make them instantly playable with a very low amount of coding required. But additionally they could be made more desirable (difference between a 40 karma cost and a 100 karma cost?) by giving them a natural ability to see in the dark, and by somehow modifying basic box technology to make it spawn pre-named and pre-colored.
Thoughts?
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My proposition is for a new type of constructable and intractable "teleportation" pad which when paired with another telepad in range creates a two way instant transit system. However, this should only be able to function over a very small distance (5-7 tile maximum separation).
The purpose I have in mind for this is to create an air proof door system between rooms with different atmospheric conditions.
For instance, if a Vox wants to fill an area with no2 so that they can breathe naturally, they will constantly need to worry about no2 leaking out into other places which is a hazard. If a plasma-person tried to construct a plasma only environment so that they could remove their suit, the first time the seal is breached and the tiniest amount of oxygen let in, the plasma-person would burst into flames.
In order to construct these things, it could be done through RnD similar to how the cargo telepads (for the RCS device) currently are deployed, just have them require more research and cost more resources.
Pros
Aside from being an enabler of more tightly secured a-typical atmospheric condition type rooms, the basic mechanic itself might prove to be versatile and worth-while to have. If emagged, could increase the range from a maximum of 5 or 7 tiles to something much larger. It would use a pairing or frequency system not unlike existing mechanics.
The sprite could be a recolored telepad, I'm sure nobody would suspect a thing
Cons
Requires coding that I don't know about. The reward might not be worth the space on the hard drive or the time to complete it. But hey, one of you badass coders might be interested and be able to just bust it out lickity-split!
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I thought... I think, Nienhaus(?) made a portal gun sprite some time ago, didn't they?
Also, permanent portals are a TERRIBLE idea. Everything else is meh with me.
maybe not permanent, but lasting awhile so that the gun is useful.
a stun baton, a multi tool, a lazer, anythign electric, can disable the portal and make it dissappear.
Plus only two portals can exist at once per gun.
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Since telescience was removed I was thinking about what sort of functionality was lost and what could replace it. The answer is a two way portal gun!
In order to keep it pricey, make it require max research and an anomaly core to complete.
It has a toggle to create portals of two colors. (would look like hand tele portal). When both portals are open they teleport to one another.
The gun can remotely remove individual portals in order to place new ones. Multi tools, stuns, lazers, also disable portals. Otherwise the portals could be ???permanent???.
I would use this late round for rescuing people and sending them to medbay, or if i was a part of a group of antags, for shenanigans.
Thoughts? How could such a device be heavily abused?
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Giving the best and biggest validhunter in all the game even more tools to validhunt isn't a good idea---the more omnipresent an AI is the less and less wiggle room traitors are going to have.
Yea I touched on this in my OP. (had to look up validhunting though, heh)
But in all honesty, I think traitors have it far too easy. Committing crimes in front of active cameras is foolish, and traitors have more tools than ever before to use skill, intelligence, and creativity to accomplish their objectives.
More AI nodes would mean that crimes committed on camera get caught more often, and that doors will be quicker to bolt or become electrified. It's certainly not anything insurmountable.
To be honest I'm more concerned about the ramifications of a malf or subverted AI with nodes. Their ability to launch a mass assault on crew would be much greater.
Perhaps as was suggested, server population could determine if and how many nodes are recruitable.
For instance, at 50 players, one AI node could become available, and then an additional AI node for every additional 15 or 20 players. That are connected. (something like that anyway). This should create a scenario where AI presence and response times scales with server population.
While the changes to AI balance might be a ramification to think about, it could turn out to be an interesting one, and the effect of increasing AI helpfulness to crew (which is generally the job i view them as fulfilling) would probably be very satisfying (and IC time saving!) in the long run.
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Closets and crates are very easy to open, there are many ways to crack them...
Lock boxes on the other hand either require command access or an emag.
This is so for good reason though. If lock boxes were at all openable by science then every round you would have a horde of annoying and over armed powergaming griffers who run around tazing everyone and their corgi. Trust me, I used to lead them...
EASY 'code' FIXES for CULT
in Suggestions
Posted
Nothing is to stop them; I can already get all the runes within the first twenty minutes. If I have two words to start with then it takes me only about 15 minutes, with 3 words even less time. Then i just tell everyone. The trouble is not usually getting the words, but rather having people actually know how to use the words once they're gotten. Although, at the beginning of the round i like to spend time preparing for my future cult plans, which entails running around a fair bit, which means I can either prepare and then do research (putting all words at around 35 minutes) or I can instantly use coms runes or find a second cultist for their word and start doing research (putting words at around 15 minutes) if the other cultists reply quickly that is.
I would spend much more time giving explicit instructions and explanations of cult magic to fellow cultists than I would getting them to tell me their words and helping in research. P.S: the starting talisman can already produce communicate runes, which achieves this function.
And yet, cult still consistently under perform. I think the only thing that has caused cult to last this long in the rotation is that summoning nar'sie is actually achievable and acts like a station nuke to end the round. With cult communicate, summoning nar'sie could either be made more difficult as a balance, be made less impactful, or be exchanged for generally more ambitious objectives like station wide dominance or shuttle hijacking, or multiple sacrifices instead of just one.
Cult CAN grow exponentially, but it can also grow in a linear fashion: when I'm the only one converting.Unless I were to meta my way into converting really capable cultists, there's no guarantee at all of exponential growth.
Admittedly, 3 cultists vs 120 crew have their future balanced on the edge of a knife at the beginning of the round. Under normal circumstances I never see these cults be successful other than summoning nar'sie and ending the round ( I don't like the Narsie mechanic). Again here I think the real crux is competency. Given the increased difficulties 40 additional crew members brings with it, having a few extra starting cultists will increase the odds of a competent cultist, and having a coms network would enable them to organize such that no cultist bungles early on.
When you think about it enabling a coms network inherent to cultists is one of the smallest mechanical changes that we could possibly make to them. I don't disagree that it is a buff because of the ramifications to organization and success it will have, but I also feel it is a strong change because the communication will open up possibility and dynamism to the cult.
In the end all I want to see are interesting rounds. Right now everyone unanimously agrees cult is problematic because it consistently fails to produce interesting rounds. IT CAN produce interesting rounds, but it takes interesting cultists, and developing cult skill is one of the more tedious curves to climb.
I mean, I can make a giant stack of coms talismans no problem, I can even hand them out to every cultist and force them to use them. I could go out of my way to put stacks of coms talismans into folders and distribute those so that important cultists can actually communicate efficiently, but that eats up most of my round, and out of the pool of all players signed up to be selected as cultists, most of them have probably never even attempted to do cult research before, let alone use advanced rune magic.
The other antag groups which have coms are: syndicate, blob, changeling, S-ling, abductor, trader/raider, xeno, all strike teams, and probably more that I'm forgetting. Would it really be so powerful to give cult a coms network relative to the aforementioned antag groups?