TrainTN
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Posts posted by TrainTN
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I think this game is better when it is freeform for the crew, so the idea of giving them objectives to distract them from their jobs/plans or give assistants more reasons to be jackasses is unnecessary. They should be doing the jobs they signed up for anyway, and ordinary crewmembers should be allowed to set their own goals for the round. Even the Station Goals, I think, are pretty dumb and pointless, not to mention repetitive and unrewarding. Leave objectives to antagonists, but if you want more variety, I'd say create more objectives for antagonists to do: steal money, transport sensitive goods, steal lesser items like hardsuits, weapons, ID cards, etc. If you want to be complex about it, you could divide antags between "major" traitors who assassinate and steal high-value items; and "minor" traitors who handle less dangerous matters, like corporate espionage, theft, smuggling, and so on. Then you could set them up proportionately, like if there are 4 major traitors, you could have then 1 or 2 minor traitors, preferably with lesser resources since they wouldn't need the better gear to accomplish their mission. It could be like a difference between Hard Mode and Easy Mode, I suppose, though I'm not sure if players should be given a choice in which to be.
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1 hour ago, HarakoniWarhawk said:
Always remember to ask the Admins first before doing so, just so you cover your ass in case anything happens.
I've dragged tons of SSD people to the cryodorms, so long as you don't try to loot them you're fine. I make a habit of it when playing in medbay and assistants keep dragging SSD guys in yelling at us to fix them.
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11 hours ago, BiberDark said:
Make Lawyer a separate jobslot. I think we need some defender for the crew. Besides it is ridiculous that the lawyer is under the IAA department. Because a prosecuting state attorney cant be a lawyer at the same time. This two jobs have to be separated or do we want a situation like in 3rd world countries here?
Maybe we can add this to the Karmajobs.
I'm not sure dividing up jobs is going to help in the long run, and I am against more karmajobs, especially when the Magistrate position already exists. I'd rather side with earlier ideas of removing the lawyer/defender titles and let IAA be exclusively IAA. Doing their job well should yield the same results as a lawyer would anyway: ensuring Security is behaving in accordance to Space Law and SOP, but without an overtone of being an obnoxious argumentative "crusader for justice." They are the defenders of the crew but only when Security is overstepping its bounds and abusing the rights of said crew, and any action taken by an IAA in defense of the crew should remain within the bounds of Space Law itself. If they're acting otherwise, arrest and fire them. Or just ahelp it.
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1 hour ago, The Respected Man said:
Why not just recode it to make it slower, and less of a blood bath so it fits into the paradise picture?
Then it wouldn't really be Revolution anymore. Rev's is characterized by being a rolling snowball of chaos and violence. If you take that away, what would be left? A workers' strike?
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7 hours ago, davidchan said:
Donuts are your best friend while walking the beat. They restore your hunger allowing you to run around faster, and sprinkled donuts give a small healing boost to security officers. Convince the chef to make lots of these and stuff your sec belt and internals box full of them for snacks on the go.
There's also donuts in the SecVends, so no need to hassle the chef about them until you run out of those and the boxes the Brig starts with.
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2 hours ago, Dinarzad said:
The problem is though, that's just how the game plays. If it DOESN'T, then you get dreadful expierences for everyone involved really, Sec runs out of things to fight, Crew has nothing eventful happening and the antagonist player is likely not so thrilled he was shot on sight before he even got a chance to cause some trouble.
That mind set of "But what if" is, and I fucking hate myself for having to use the phrase, a slippery slope. Because it's what enables power gamers most of all. Not that you ARE power gaming, just that it is a VERY problematic mindset, because "What if that Civvie in the tunnels is a traitor" "What if that clown is a cultist, he's always kind of beat up." is the go to for a lot of people who ARE.That's fair, and definitely taking a certain mindset too far. A guy who checks every single memorized nook and cranny of the station just in case he finds a tator or cult there is going too far. Security force-feeding everyone holy water at the merest suspicion of a cult is going too far. Arresting a guy for having a multitool and a gas mask is going too far. And it goes both ways, it's entirely possible for antags to go too far as well, like with the "telecrystal pooling" strategy and other things discussed in this thread.
3 hours ago, Dinarzad said:As a more non-specific general statement to anyone playing Security OR Antagonists, Winning/Losing isn't even really a feature of SS13, you get no achievements, you unlock nothing special, and you get zero points for doing all objectives as an antagonist, or stopping antags as Sec. The goal of the antagonist is/should be to cause trouble, to make shit happen in a round, and for Security is to keep order on the station and protect the crew, NOT to hunt down and murder enemies of Nanotrasen. That just usually comes about as part of protecting the crew.
There are no rewards, or real win/lose scenarios. But as antag, I still try to go for the greentext, because I want to prove I can actually accomplish it. I'm better with direction instead of being left to do my own thing. As Security, if antags get greentext, I feel like it's because I didn't perform well enough to notice all the thefts and murders going on nor catch the guys committing them. I do try to worry about keeping the crew safe more than hunting down that one guy running around in the maintenance halls, but that guy tends to pop out of maint and murder people anyway.
I don't play either role very much, personally. Security and Antagonist tend to be too stressful for me, for all these discussed reasons. They're the roles where if you screw up even a little bit, you will die and disappoint people.
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2 hours ago, Dinarzad said:
I think you are drastically misinterpreting "RP Friendly" with just "Friendly".
Vampires are not friendly, and security should brig 'em. Vampires are, however, not obligated to be murderbone-y or thrall on sight style antags. You cannot summarily execute them just because they are vampires, just because players murderbone as an antag a lot, You may as well commit Greytide genocide cuz they are almost always shitters, using that logic.Vampires are still crew-chomping predators and/or Syndicate agents. Greytiders are jerks, but usually not blood-drinking murderers with an explicit objective to damage the station and harm the crew. Just because they're not obligated to be murderboney doesn't mean they come with kind intentions. And if they did, well, I'd consider that the same thing as a "friendly wizard."
2 hours ago, Dinarzad said:You can (And should) absolutely throw them into the brig and throw away the key. If the vamp gets out for being fully powered up an just misting away, then execution is on the table, because it is no longer viable to contain the threat.
In one of my few rounds as security, we actually did brig a vampire after he killed a crewmember. Later on I had to rescue the warden from him using his vampire powers in an attempt to escape the brig, at which point the HoS killed him, and him and the other heads all lambasted us for being dumb enough to brig a vampire. The only reason we brigged that vampire was because he was caught so early we weren't even aware he was a vampire until he busted out the superpowers later in the brig to attack the warden. Vampires come with dangerous stunning abilities by default, containing even a base-level vampire is risky. I'm glad the secvendor has muzzles but there's still risks involved that make them significantly more threatening than a normal human traitor. By the time Security manages to capture one, there's no telling what abilities they may already have until they're demonstrated. I don't want to be the guy who brigs what I think is a low-level vampire until he suddenly mists into the armory.
3 hours ago, Dinarzad said:Just killing antags outright for being antags is one major way you get boring, non-eventful rounds where nothing happens for 85% of the station's crew, because Security wants "Dat sweet red text" on antags.
This isn't an argument about "dat sweet red text," it's about the crew's safety, and Security's own safety in dealing with a blood-sucking monster. Plus some antags ARE expected to be killed on discovery, and most vampires are only discovered to be vampires when they're already murdering the crew, which usually leads to a kill-on-sight order even for mortal traitors. If the round is boring and uneventful for most of the crew, I'd sooner say that's the antags' fault for letting it be as such, not Security's for stopping the threat to the station. That's not powergaming, that's their role. They can powergame their role, but you can't fault them for doing their job.
But maybe I'm just biased because the vampire rounds I've been involved in always turned out to be bloody crises involving powerplays like Sleeping Carp Vampires. I don't play Security often because I struggle to deal with issues like these, so I don't think I'm well-suited to the role.
2 hours ago, Dinarzad said:Conversely though, a soul-less bureaucratic hyper corporation, so large it functionally has it's own military and black ops squads WOULD want this teleporting ultra strong entity for scientific study to apply for their own forces or for possible methods of controlling them, even at the expense of "expendable" crew members, that DOES seem very much up their ally, especially if it pushes the company's profits higher then their competitors, no?
Was that not the entire basis of the "Alien" universe? Aliens were scary shit, but companies wanted to control them, thus leading to terrible scenarios for the grunt levels?
By this logic, we should be brigging the lings too. And the actual xenomorphs. And wizards, and terror spiders, and the blob. The vampires already work for their competitors, if NT wants vampires they can go hire them themselves and not expect the security force, whom they hire explicitly to protect the crew from these things, to keep these teleporting ultra strong entities under lock and key. And even if the crew is that expendable (which they probably are), the station itself still isn't. Because if it was all really that worthless, there would be no ERTs or evacuation shuttle, they'd just let it burn when a problem came up.
It may be a dystopian hyper-capitalist future, but I still don't think NT is as stupid and insane as Weyland-Yutani. Maybe just insane, but not stupidly insane.
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8 hours ago, Allfd said:
A vampire is a blue space entity that inhabits a body right before death, pushing out it's soul. It inherits the personality and memories of it's host. From a lore perspective, and from a personal one, this is not really any different from the first person only now they may want to eat you. It's not a corpse, and it has the personality and memory of it's host. Unlike a changeling, it is actually your assigned crewmember. Unlike other antags it does not necessarily represent a existential threat to the crew.
From a gameplay perspective, I view vampires as the most RP friendly supernatural antag. They are the only supernatural antag class that can RP and does not have to murderbone. Not killing all other types in rotation result in station destruction.
I do not believe Nanotrasen considers "may eat its fellow crewmembers" to be an acceptable "workplace disability," regardless of how similar it is to the employee it used to be. And considering my experiences with vampire antags, just because they don't have to murderbone, doesn't mean they won't. They will. They almost always will. Some of them are more dangerous than the changelings even. They eat and brainwash the crew, they have uncontrollable supernatural powers, they kill whoever tries to stop them; I'm really not seeing much of a difference compared to the other bad guys other than a vampire is technically more of a person. I cannot imagine a soulless bureaucratic Nanotrasen pencil-pusher looking at this predator of human beings and deciding "Yes, this is worth keeping on the payroll."
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2 hours ago, tzo said:
Everything has a counter. Even traitor-carp-vampires can be stunned/harmed with a stunbaton. Think about what you're up against, and adapt your tactics accordingly. Sometimes, calling for backup, retreating to regroup / regear, etc is your best option. There's a time and a place for rushing in, but usually, being careful is a better idea.
I remember going up against one of those in one of my few security rounds. He killed a 3-man squad of officers in riot suits. Later he was only stopped by half the security department and the captain beating him to death in a hallway, and they only managed that because every time he misted away, for some reason he came back to fight more.
As for advice, have a great internet connection. Don't spam clicks, I don't think it works as well as you'd hope. Use your ranged options like the taser gun and pepperspray or a flashbang if you're desperate. If you think you can get it in, use a bola from the secvendor, few people expect it. Carry more than one pair of handcuffs because in my (limited) experience you'll lose them quickly. Whatever you do, don't panic. I've lost fights by letting myself get too agitated and accidentally hitting Tab to take me out of hotkey mode.
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11 hours ago, The Respected Man said:
2) Nerf Pulling
It just boggles my mind that you can pull a person as though gravity does not exist. People can just stun you, pop a meth pill, grab you and then run to the other side of the station to space you. I suggest a minor nerf. It can be something like a 10% or a 20% penalty to move speed. The hand you are using to pull someone should be free for pulling. If you use your right hand to pull someone, you will dedicate that hand to the pull. You can no longer have a shotgun in your left hand and a shield in your right hand while pulling someone, you need to have an empty hand to pull someone.
The Colonial Marines server does this, to make Marines more vulnerable to the Xenos. Pulling is essentially the same thing as grabbing, you have to have a free hand and it slows you down. It also encourages the medics to actually use the roller beds, which would be nice to have here if only so that there'd be less ridiculously-long trails of blood criss-crossing the entirety of the station. I do have to agree that being able to pull people all over the station with no penalty is pretty wacky. Especially since I've seen traitors abuse this to use human shields with no slow-down, or create "tag-teams" with other traitors so one can focus on shooting security while the other focuses on running. It's pretty bullshit, I won't lie.
And I agree with what imsxz is saying about Rev. Rev encourages Shitcurity on other servers, even when it's not Rev mode, purely out of the rampant paranoia it causes. Security either dies, or goes full deathsquad just to survive. I'd assume most competent security players are too afraid of being bwoinked and banned for harmbatoning a guy a couple of times, there's definitely no way I'd grab a shotgun and start blasting crewmember antags just because they'll probably ahelp it and argue how Shitcurity I am.
I mean, I was told you can't execute vampires for being vampires. According to the wiki, a vampire is a corpse possessed by a demon from beyond the void, and executing it is against Space Law?
Conversion modes where most of the station can turn into antags is also generally poor for roleplay purposes, another reason I don't think Rev fits well on Paradise. At least cult is subtle for most of the round if they're capable, but shadowlings can really get out of control fast before you even notice the problem. I've seen enough complaints that the server has fallen to the low-RP end of the scale already, something like Rev would reinforce that.
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1 hour ago, tzo said:
Putting people 'in charge' without actual, direct, 'they can fire you' authority, simply does not work.
Pretty much this. At least the QM has some psuedo-authority considering the guy who CAN fire his underlings is literally across the hallway from the Cargo Bay. The chain of command does not need to be further complicated; the QM is not a head, he is just a managerial role meant to watch over both the Cargo Techs and the Miners to ensure that the CTs don't waste all the points on pizza and the Miners don't run off and die in the first 15 minutes of the round (or at least inform the HoP when they do so he can hire new ones).
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1 minute ago, Jountax said:
It colors it as overeating because it is overeating, but if how I udnerstand the symptom is correct, it will swiftly counteract said overeating just like it counteracts undereating.
I'm pretty sure you're right. I'm just saying that when everyone always has that hunger bar at a nice full blue, the chef may as well throw himself into his own gibber, because no one is going to pay him any mind anymore. At least the botanists get to play around with drugs and mushrooms when they don't have to grow food.
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Speaking of dirty hands, I have this visual problem where if I get blood on my hands, washing them doesn't remove the blood from the sprite unless you put on and take off gloves. It's definitely irritating.
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1 hour ago, CaesersLegion said:
2. Don't you have to get a weapons permit first before you can even touch weapons? And that's usually done by the Head of Personnel so i don't really understand why the Head of Security has so much to say there. The HoS should be more interested in keeping the station safe, the HoP, RD and Captain should worry about equipping the expedition squads.
5. I think only Captain and HoP should be worried about sending a rescue team.
Just my opinions, everything else seems cool enough.
I kind of agree with this. The more Heads of Staff you involve in the process, the harder it will be to get anything done. Also, no one is going to care about "written permission." They'll just debate it on the radio or in-person and decide that way. And who would the written permission be given to anyway? All the authorizing heads are already approving of it since they're the ones who would be organizing a rescue team in the first place, so who is the paperwork for?
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6 hours ago, ID404NotFound said:
I agree with the rest, but according to what little is written about gateway, it is supposed to only open with captain's authorization. I've seen RDs give out guest passes with gateway access on them, thinking that they are in charge of gateway "because it's research related".
But please keep conversation on the topic on whether there should be a wiki page that consolidates information on gateway, and ideas about what information is included/excluded
Fair enough, it can stay Captain-only. But it really needs an on/off button. As for being on-topic, I think at most the wiki page should have a list of locations with brief one-line summaries, and nothing more, to discourage powergaming. Though it would only discourage it in people who don't already know everything there is to know.
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14 hours ago, tzo said:
Making the Gateway require Captain-level authorization is rather pointless when almost anyone can break in.
In theory, the restriction "limited gateway access on higher codes" makes sense to try to make people deal with the threat to the station, but what if they're non-combatants who want to hide out on the beach?
It might take work, but the Gateway could have an on/off button that only a Head of Staff('s ID) can activate.
As for people escaping the station through it, I'm against that idea on the principle that it lessens the drama. A space station is a good setting for action and suspense because it's a limited and isolated location that cannot be easily escaped. So, I would not approve of people fleeing the station through the Gateway and lessening their involvement in the round. That sounds boring to me and means less players interacting with each other in dynamic ways. Players should have to deal with the station's problems, be it handling them directly or helping each other. Hopping off the station entirely feels like cheating, and there's enough locations for that as-is, such as the mining outpost and engineering satellite. Plus, where's the fun in a dozen guys standing around on a beach while all the interesting stuff happens elsewhere?
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1 hour ago, Dumbdumn5 said:
A long one here.
*list*
I've been here four years, hopefully more, the list must grow!
You listed Sam Aria and Slith-Skaar twice.
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I don't like it. It does only seem like a Nuke Ops reskin to me. It sounds like it gives the Ops a chance for failure even after securing the disk, which doesn't sound fair to me since the major focal point of Nuke Ops is getting dat disk. Most of them will be dead by the time they do and if getting dat disk also means waiting longer for the biohazard to consume the station, that just means even more dead people waiting even longer for what's supposed to be a fast action-intense round getting dragged out. Just seems like it's "different" for the sake of being "different."
And I don't think "lore" makes sense either. I think a nuke is a lot easier to make and contain than a dangerous uncontrollable biohazard like a Blob or Terror Spiders. We have thousands of nukes today, I think future space-tech would have even less of a problem pumping them out. Plus, the Syndicate doesn't need to be subtle so "Nanotrasen can't retaliate," it's already a shadowy cabal of many factions and organizations united by a hatred of NT, it's not just one group, it's many working in cooperation. It's hard to tell who does what when you're NT because everyone hates you so it could be any one of them. If the Syndicate wants a station destroyed, they'll do it in the most practical and overt way possible, i.e. a nuke. And space suits can already function like biosuits, can't they? No reason for them to wear something else in that case, as cool as the visual could be.
Some other servers, tgstation for example, already give Ops a biohazard option in that they can buy and release dangerous and infectious diseases onto the station to weaken and distract the crew while they attack. If you want biological warfare, I'd say you should instead go for something like that, an option that is merely a means to an end.
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1 hour ago, tzo said:
For the record, https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/8283 is now merged, and Peacekeepers are gone.
Good riddance.
My inner janitor will be grateful for less cookie spam.
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18 minutes ago, Jountax said:
I find it odd that so many people forget that weight even allows you to pig out as much as you want and never get fat from it. Tons of people take advantage of sensory restoration to binge on booze with 0 downsides, but hardly any ever take advantage of weight even the same way.
You're not wrong, but the game still colors it as overeating, and the nutrition meter still goes up to the "Fat" gray. So it doesn't feel like "I can eat everything I want!" The real important thing is that if people don't need to eat, they won't; and if people won't eat, whoever is playing the chef will have nothing to do because no one likes to RP with them like they do the bartender. Possibly because the chef always has limited ingredients unlike the bartender, so you can't always go up and ask for specific foods.
Thinking about this has given me an idea for another suggestion: a new disability called "Fast Metabolism" that makes the nutrition meter drain at an increased rate. I know it's not what you normally think of when you hear "disability" but it mechanically would be: more likely to be impeded by hunger and thus necesitating more trips to the kitchen/snack machines, and the duration of food buffs would be decreased also because the consumed food would be burned off faster. I considered making a thread for it but it seemed small enough, and relevant, to put here.
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4 hours ago, BottomQuark said:
PS: What does chemical implant do even?
As I understand it, it's an implant that when remotely activated will release an implanted container of chemicals into the implantee's bloodstream. So you can dose them up on ether (or cyanide) and if they get out, just press the button and they'll keel over. Unless they got a buddy to surgically remove it first.
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On 11/4/2017 at 8:32 AM, Alriac said:
Also, can food contain tools inside?
Bread, pizzas, cakes, maybe pies too. I once accidentally put wirecutters in a pizza while trying to slice it with tools, since knives are hard to come by. It may be only one tool per food item as well.
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On 11/24/2017 at 11:52 PM, EvadableMoxie said:
If the problem is rendering Chefs meaningless then I'm sorry to say they already are. 2 cups of chicken soup provide enough nutrition to make it through a shift. Just 1 if the shuttle comes a bit early and you drink it at the right time.
Chef is basically a roleplay role, much like Bartender.
I like to play chef, and I agree it's essentially a roleplay role, but it's not pleasant to be invalidated by the virologist's efforts. Especially when RnD does upgrade the kitchen equipment so the chef can triple their output, but no one cares about eating it. Just because it's a roleplay role doesn't mean it's okay to discard it.
I know that recently tgstation revamped virology's healing viruses to be more nuanced (injecting water heals burn damage, being hot heals brute damage, etc.) and it did remove both Weight Even and Weight Gain in doing so, so that food couldn't be rendered a 100% non-issue. I agreed with it there, and I'd agree with removing the weight symptoms here as well. After all, when you can just scrounge junk from the vending machines and Mr. Chang's if you're so averse to dealing with the chef, it would hardly make a difference in the end. Chef doesn't need to be a station VIP but it doesn't need to be a useless fluff job either.
Suggestion: Non Karma Racial Stuff
in Suggestions
Posted
Immune to all poisons, most diseases that they'll ever encounter, minor darksight, claws, and a speed boost, in exchange for being slightly more fragile than a human being? That really does not sound right to me, the karma-locked races have lesser benefits than all that. Heck, most of the karma-locked races feel like they have decent strengths but awful weaknesses that kill my interest in playing them, but that's off-topic.
As for Vulps, at least give them the Tajs' vulnerability to heat, as negligible a weakness as it is. The two species are probably going to be exactly the same no matter what because nothing makes them biologically distinct from each other. The only drawback I can think of for these three species (considering there's very little "alien" about them) is that their nutriment bars drain at an increased rate due to less developed and nuanced digestive tracts, being mostly carnivorous and thus requiring more food to compensate. Not that I actually know anything about biology and could be completely wrong about how that works, but it's the only thing I got. Of the vanilla races, diona are the only ones who are actually unique aliens and not just a human with claws who can see in the dark.