TrainTN
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Posts posted by TrainTN
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5 hours ago, Piccione said:
The Chemist is usually too busy making Medical Drugs to make the sort of Drugs useful for Psych (which usually don't have an actual gameplay purpose and are purely for RP).
A point could be made that instead of coding an Uplink, the Psych should simply start with more drugs in the Closet. I proposed the Menu Idea because it'd be easier for the CMO to manage, but i don't know which one is harder to code, so there's that.
Yes, just give the psychologist an actual medicine cabinet, or at the very least a pill bottle that starts full. He already lives in a closet and nobody cares he exists, at least give him more than a measly four pills to play with.
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A few minor notes about Medbay:
- I couldn't find any pill bottles for the MDs to use.
- Every tile that is supposed to be white with a blue corner in the lower-right instead had the blue corner in the upper-left.
- Cryotubes' pipes look like a mix of being under tiles and over tiles, it looks weird.
- The morgue had rocket ship carpeting (the same kind as in Box's arcade) for some reason.
Also, it may be nice to replace the Bar and Kitchen airlocks with glass airlocks so they can see into the Club without having to leave their rooms.
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On 2/4/2018 at 11:50 PM, ID404NotFound said:
although there is more maint space, and interesting mini department things in maints, it feels like they're all generally one way paths with not much for branching out, or looping around like cyberiad maints. it's neat to see mini botany, mini robotics, mini medical, et cetera, but it's all kind of cramped, and doesn't make it a fun place to lose security in. In cyberiad, there were loops and twists and turns that you could lose people in if you were good/lucky
This may be a serious issue for shadowlings and cults, but in regards to other antagonists, I'm tired of every traitor camping out in maintenance running in circles forever and ever where most of the crew will never even see them. I have no problem with maintenance being a little less maneuverable and forcing them out into the open from time to time, and what can impede an antagonist can likely impede Security too. I think the boosted size of the rest of the station can also compensate for this; cornering someone in the hallways or most departments is going to be more difficult in general. I don't have a problem with "more station, less maint."
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1 hour ago, ZN23X said:
Example: you and another player watch someone die. You are horrified by it. The other isnt bothered. What is wrong with them? Oh my god they are in shock. Traumatised. They must need psychological help. Now you MUST bring them to the psych. Wait they are saying they are fine? My god it's worse than we thought. Clearly they need to be restrained before they snap and do something crazy. You will get them the help they deserve. They resisting? Keep trying. You'd hate to leave then alone in this state. God knows what will happen if you do. P̶u̶n̶i̶s̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶f̶a̶i̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶y̶ ̶a̶l̶o̶n̶g̶.̶
Sounds like a good way to get arrested/fired/beaten to death/bwoinked to me, considering how some people are.
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2 hours ago, ZN23X said:
Good way to RP is to simply just react to stuff appropriately. Alot of people seem to grow numb to certain events and happenings in the game cuz "they've seen it so many times"
Be shocked when you see someone die, freak out about the hallucinations your are having, get scared when you hear there is a mass murderer on station. Could go on and on. Simple things.
It's kind of tough to do this stuff when so few other people are willing to play along with you, though. It's why RP can be tough; it depends on the people around you to help make it work, otherwise you may as well be talking to yourself in a void.
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18 hours ago, Fox McCloud said:
This stems from Goon and is still a thing on TG; it's really just a Bay thing to break the two off, completely.
Funny coincidence, Baystation just updated yesterday or so to give the bartender and cook access to each other's areas since there's usually only one.
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10 hours ago, Benjaminfallout said:
4. Not knowing what *squish means. Is it lewd? Is it like snapping? Can I as a human go around *squishing?
*squish is the unique slime people emote. it makes a squish sound. Humans can *squish if they have a limb cut off and replaced with a slime person's.
Yes, it is lewd.-
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1 hour ago, Aletmagne said:
I shoulda been more clear. The reason Kennard got demoted was unrelated to me. Just pointing out that we REALLY need to consider screening players in heads roles more
Head roles can be hard enough to fill as-is. If you want to start banning people for not living up to standards then you may as well just white-list the jobs. And I despise whitelists.
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5 hours ago, Dinarzad said:
I could see how they might be glowy, if they were a race of tunnel-dwellers. Like if they're so ant-like that they prefer underground environments to surface ones. Not so sure if that's legit their lore though.
The wiki says their home planet is essentially a wasteland of harsh climate as well as environmental damage from strip-mining, so the vast majority of kida live in underground hives. So that would make some sense, for a civilization more advanced than an ant farm.
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3 hours ago, Shadeykins said:
To play devil's advocate, anyone who has their prefs off can always be 100% trusted.
And there are a LOT of people who have their prefs disabled.
You're right. I just think making it a character-specific thing would exacerbate the issue. If you know Character A is always a goody-two-shoes but Character B can be any antagonist in half the rounds he's in, one of them is going to get a lot more suspicion than the other all the time. I think it takes a bit of fun out of it, it's already a bit of a problem where you can almost predict who is an antagonist depending on who is online, but it's not like you can force people to be bad guys if they don't want to.
Unless it's a conversion game mode.
Let's bring back Revolution. -
57 minutes ago, pazneria12 said:
One thing I read for Kidan a long time ago was something to do with smells, like knowing stuff about other Kidan who have walked through the station, or other people, finding some stuff about blood and stuff like that.
Yes, I read suggestions of similar things, of kida leaving hidden pheromone messages for each other, or being able to read a location via scents. There's a lot of things you could do with an insect-like race, which might be making it difficult to decide what should be done, at least as a start.
I would gladly swap out the glow-in-the-dark power for something like that, though. I don't really understand why kida are bioluminescent in that way.
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I do feel the same way, that kida need a unique upside to balance out their unique downside. I am totally willing to play a character who can't benefit from glasses so long as they have something interesting to compensate for it. Even if it was something simple like being harder to kill, like a cockroach, though obviously not too tough. The exoskeleton idea does sound good, I do like the idea of them being "easy to break but easy to fix" as others say of IPCs, like an organic equivalent. I agree the original PR was unsatisfying and came off as a slapdash bandage just to give kida glasses again, which I don't think would actually encourage people to play as them, since they still wouldn't have much to offer in terms of benefits. So I had hoped to take the general idea of "resilience" and expand it to give them some unique biology to set them apart. Course, I don't know the slightest thing about coding, let alone BYOND's code, so for now I'm trying to keep my suggestions grounded and relatively simple.
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I'm still against making antag options specific to characters. It removes a lot of tension knowing that this specific person can always be 100% trusted. Not that it's not possible already if you can quickly alter your options before readying for the round.
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The PR has been up for a number of days now and there's been a lot of back-and-forth discussion over it. I am growing concerned that no one will be able to agree on what they want from kidan, and nothing will ever actually get changed. I must admit that even I am stuck on my own idea and can't agree with other people's suggestions on what to do with them.
Overall, what I wanted from kida was for them to be the hardy species. With the lore update up above, I liked the idea of them being immune to infections (even if infections are broken right now, it's the thought that counts) as well as being tougher than most, but still having their own unique weakness, i.e. being more vulnerable to blood loss, maybe even suffocation in general. Specifically, they would merely incur more damage at the same tick-rate as every other species when reaching the low-blood thresholds; if they bled faster it would nullify the brute resist too much. If having tougher bones and/or organs was possible, I think you'd have an interesting race where after being hurt, a kidan's biggest concern wouldn't be broken bones or damaged lungs, but instead finding gauze or a trauma kit to patch up the bleeding so they could find fuller medical treatment without fear, or even just walk it off after bugging the chemists for iron pills. I liked imagining kidan players tending to carry around their own bandages "just in case." I would sum it up as "tough body, sensitive blood." Especially if you threw in the toxin weakness, though I feel that one is unnecessary since kida are already weak to pest spray, something easily found in maintenance. I hoped that kind of balance would increase their survival rate in dangerous terrain and make them overall better at staying alive in bad situations, but not make them too robust to fight against, especially when they're just as vulnerable to laser beams as any other crewmembers so hopefully kidan antags could just get e-gunned.
The no-eyewear weakness, while a very strong weakness, was also pretty unique, and made sense in regards to their biology, their compound eyes. My only complaint about it was that kidan's strengths didn't come close to reasonably balancing out this weakness, which is why I made this thread in the first place. The most serious problem of this weakness was how it almost totally disabled kida from the mining role, ironically. Jountax working on an "ore sense" is a welcome effort, though there's other possible ideas like creating meson eye implants, or maybe giving kidan a natural meson vision, possibly balanced out by having it only work when they stand still and toggle it on to "sense" the area around them; they are a subterranean species since their homeworld's surface is so inhospitable, so I think it would make sense for the species. There's a number of things you could try to do to work around the problem, and if implemented, I'd call the no-eyewear restriction fair so long as it was combined with a more impressive strength than minor brute resist, which is why I wanted to propose making their health hardier in general.
I think that covers all my thoughts on kidan now that it's been discussed here and on the GitHub for a while now. I hope that a consensus of some kind is reached. I hope that any change will lead to a better state for kidan than the one they're in now, so I'm looking forward to what happens, and playing as them if I like what I see.
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1 minute ago, Tayswift said:
I'll quote @FlattestGuitar who has done some analysis on antag fishing:
So randomness is the most fair way of doing this, but there are people who will tend to leave the round earlier if they're not antag, resulting in a lopsided amount of time being antag. The solution is to encourage people to antag more. Part of this is probably allowing you to have an "antag character" selected, so that if you roll antag, you play with that character instead. That'll solve a lot of issues such as IPCs not being able to roll changeling/vampire.
That doesn't sound fair. That could be metagamed incredibly easily if you can tell who is never antag and who is always an antag. Isn't this supposed to be a roleplaying game about paranoia in space? It's supposed to be a game where almost anyone could be a traitor, it's why they exist in the first place. If I can just meta who is always innocent and who is always guilty, what's the point?
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6 hours ago, Ralta said:
I'd much rather try and entice existing players to roll antag. A lot of people are scared to try it, or get frustrated at the 'must-win' attitude that seems to permeate a lot of the out of game channels.
Mind you, I personally don't roll antag very often any more because I enjoy playing a regular crewmember far more, but that's me.This, more or less. Not a lot of people enjoy playing antag, myself included, because antag is very difficult. It should be difficult, but it is why few people play it. You're either good at playing antag and play it regularly, or you're not good at antag so you never play antag so you never get better at playing antag so you rarely retain new antags in the player pool. It's a role where even the slightest mistake or just simple bad luck can screw you over and get you either immediately executed by Security, or thrown into the permabrig for the rest of the round and left to rot and/or suicide. An early-round error can leave you dead or imprisoned for upwards of an hour or more, and Security can and will go every extra yard to sniff out any possible wrongdoing on your part because it's not their job to give you a break, it's their job to beat you in the head with a stun baton. So you end up in this situation where you see the same people as antag over and over, not because the system is improperly weighted, but because they're the only people willing to do it, and are probably the only people capable of doing it too. Turning the system against those people isn't going to open more opportunities for other players, because other players just don't want it. My antag rounds have never gone good because I'm not good, and getting good at antag takes a lot of time and experience and failures to learn from. So I prefer to just play the game normally, I get more out of it by playing it safe and I spend fewer rounds dead and imprisoned and humiliated.
The idea of playing the bad guy is fun, but it turns out playing the bad guy is extremely hard. Especially when killing people is messy and unpredictable and usually not even worth it because reviving the dead is VERY EASY to do, and stealing high-value items usually involves killing people for them anyway.
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3 minutes ago, Shadeykins said:
Starting the initial surgery has a failure chance - you're not looking at someone, you're attacking them with a scalpel/implement on help intent in order to pull up that menu.
That's not really a bug insofar as it's an oversight, and it's been around since the implementation of the surgery menu system. If you want to see it gone, I'm sure nobody will be sad to see it go - but as the system stands it makes IPC surgeries a pain due to them being incapable of receiving anesthetic.
In truth, when playing Colonial Marines as a doctor, I found their menuless, freeform surgery much more practical and enjoyable. I'm not sure why this server uses the menu surgery system, as it seems like it just takes up more time by requiring additional surgeries. I'm sure there was a reasoning for it; maybe the code just doesn't exist, I'm unaware of any details.
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https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/8580
This PR was posted recently. I'm not sure how I feel about it, personally. Since it was relevant to the topic, I figured I could give it a bump.
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23 minutes ago, Jountax said:
So far I've managed to put a new organ in their heads, but I'm still working out the actually sensing ores through walls bit. I plan to do this in chunks, but I would like to get a better list on what the community actually thinks might make kidans more interesting, less frustrating, or otherwise just more enjoyable to play so I know what to work on next.
... If me taking on this project isn't too presumptuous, that is.
If it's doable, I approve of the ore-sensing. It's logical and puts them on the same level as other players in a specific niche so I see nothing wrong with it. Combine it with another adjustment or two and kidan would be much better off than they are now. And I appreciate anyone doing it, much better than no one doing it as most suggestions tend to be. But more input from other people would be great, I would like to hear others' thoughts and opinions myself.
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1 hour ago, Shadeykins said:
On a side note, thanks for quoting that - I just realized it uses the wrong biological terms and is a little off-kilter.
And by that I mean the biology is completely and absolutely wrong and contradictory.
It now reads thus.
But yes, Kidan balance needs to be revised. Almost nobody is willing to play them.
I don't understand bug biology well enough to understand how backwards it was, but that snippet is definitely a more interesting read than the original selection.
And yes, no one really wants to play them. I do want to play them, which is why I made this thread, but I don't want to buy into a 30KP race only to realize it's so held back by mechanics that I can't really enjoy being one, as is sometimes argued for other races like diona and IPCs. I don't want to choose race based on what is "strongest," I just want to choose whatever looks fun, but I don't want to play as something that has burdensome downsides with little apparent upsides. Some disadvantages for a unique advantage is fine; Greys are squishy but have telepathy, vox and plasmamen are spaceproof but need special internals constantly, slimes have unique biology, IPCs have no biology, and drask eat soap. Kidan don't really have anything like that, other than burning nutrition to glow in the dark, which is something anyone can replicate with a flashlight and at less personal cost.
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6 minutes ago, Jountax said:
Think I'll poke around the code later, then. Need something to distract me from the tweak to kidans I've been failing to get to work for a bit.
Granted, it might have had something to do with usual ghetto surgery penalties, not pain penalties. It's difficult to deal with how random those can be, but still worth a check, I say. And good luck with the kidan tweaks too, I hope those work out well eventually.
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Just now, Jountax said:
Are IPCs immune to surgical pain fail chances? If not I feel they really should be and that that is more of an oversight to be fixed than a buff to be applied. People have been pointing out that you can fix an IPC on any old random table, which is still technically true, but in ghetto surgery environments AND with surgery fail chances those are some long odds for every step.
I heard they're not immune, mostly from comical stories of somehow failing the initial step of loosening their panel with a screwdriver. I would agree that they should have no pain fail chance at all.
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10 minutes ago, Shadeykins said:
Off the top of my head the primary one is EMP's don't kill - they do some damage and stun them for a long enough time where they can be easily killed, but it's not outright death.
I remember hearing that an IPC can survive an EMP if at the very edge of it. I don't know if it's possible in the code, but if I could, I'd make it so that EMPs only kill at direct close range, and anything beyond that just stuns/knocks out and inflicts tons of burn damage. So you either have to use an EMP grenade, or take the risk of getting right up in your target's face to one-shot them. But again, I don't know if that kind of thing would be possible to code, if it would require changing how all EMPs operate, etc.
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2 hours ago, Ziiro said:
I quit playing IPC and stuck with organics (Sometimes slime, sometimes vox), because IPCs are simply terrible. Despite synthetics/robots being my go-to choice in any game that offers it. Literally all of them.
Additionally, for another codebase, I have ported them and fixed them myself, because I am so convinced they will never be fixed here.
IPC strengths, as outlined point by point in Streaky's original post, rarely shine in actual gameplay.
Out of curiosity, what changes did you make to IPCs that you considered "fixing"? I'd like to know how you balanced them yourself.
Synthetic Law Interpretation
in Suggestions
Posted
Any lawset can be "interpreted" to a ludicrous and asinine extent to "justify" being an asshole to other players. This usually ends with a ban. Corporate is not special in this regard whatsoever, and I haven't seen anyone abuse it in such a way in-game; only hypothetical situations and imaginary dilemmas that no halfway-decent player would actually do.