[Suggestion: Non Karma Racial Stuff]

I'd argue that races are mostly in good spot right now. Humans have one strength everyone seems to forget. Lack of tails. Believe me or not it gives them advantage when it comes to disguise. You can always tell who the person is by looking at the tail, making it really hard to hide identity for species with tails and some others. The only way to completely hide for tailed species is to wear space suit without racial sprite or change their appearance, latter being hardest.

Although i'd give plasmaman some downsides, right now they are basicly vox+ with so many advantages and main one being ability to easily walk from atmosphere to space, but thats just my opinion. When i ask whats the downside of plasmaman, people always tell me that it's hard to revive them and if you take off their suit they die, latter being kind of dumb, since if you can take off some one's suit, chances are you can bash them with toolbox just as easily if not easier.

Although we shouldn't be so afraid of balance issues, if we were tortured by atmos tests in past, we certainly can survive race changes as tests to see if people are okay with it, which honestly seems a lot less harmful than the previous. (Vietnam flashbacks of scrubbers of death)

What i'm saying is, being a little brave wouldn't hurt.

[Unathi's robust scales!]

1 hour ago, bryanayalalugo said:

Don't bring a toolbox to a knife fight.

It would be rather interesting giving each species different aspects (even disadvantages as @Rumiluntti said). Makes each species unique in their own way (bringing a chance for that sweet, sweet RP) that isn't just a re-skined human sprite.

I understand why even a slight buff won't work, a lot of people just get upset thinking about it. Although i see some major weaknesses being suggested are okay-ish for others.

I feel like this is the opposite of:

19 hours ago, Rumiluntti said:

pls buff my favorite race 4noraisin thread # 730

But not in a slight way. Major weaknesses don't really bring more rp, good example is IPc's, the rp starts with clicking the EMP implant and ends with robo poop. Poor robros. :( 

The thing i suggested would actually add more to roleplay, people would be afraid of fist fighting unathis and if they did and won, they'd be like "Hey, i just beat a giant angry lizard, aren't i awesome?" While in reality the human would be only at slight disadvantage. Although commonly when i beat some one in fist fight people already always go "He had claws! Not fair." 

18 hours ago, Rumiluntti said:

There's only limited amounts of effects in the game and you already go slower when cold. Cold blooded animal's metabolism shuts down when cold after all. 
Maybe drowsiness at first, then confusion and if you really don't do anything about it, heart attack.

Unathis are already suffering quite a bit from cold space; frost oil; basilisks. Heart attacks and etc would be difficult to code and unnecessary, you already often see unathis wearing winter coats and talking about how they wish it was a bit warmer on station. Pushing the cold weakness further would only frustrate unathi players.

19 hours ago, Rumiluntti said:

Why in the hell would we need to do a social experiment by lying about making unnecessary buff to something. wat.

We don't, no one suggested we do.

Anyways... I feel like this is pointless to discuss further. People are really afraid of being at disadvantage even if slight. Although i had the idea "why not add small ressistance" because i saw how many other races have some awesome benefits with counterable or single weaknesses. Apparently i had the wrong idea.

[Unathi's robust scales!]

6 minutes ago, Rumiluntti said:

pls buff my favorite race 4noraisin thread # 730

Damage resistance trait is already on bugs so it wouldn't even make them unique in any way.

What i would like to see is something about being cold blooded, cold causes heart attacks while being warm gives something useful-ish.

Never said small damage resist would make unathis unique. You may have mistaken me with Tayswift suggesting if we perhaps could come up with something unique. I did however say it would make sense and make them closer to their lore gameplay wise.

I'm not really big on biology but how being cold blooded would cause heart attacks when cold? In any case, being killed by an ice cup is kinda overkill for something useful-ish.

I feel like some people would freak out a lot if it was told that unathis did get small damage ressistance when in reality they wouldn't. Would be an interesting social experiment.

 

[Unathi's robust scales!]

4 minutes ago, Tayswift said:

Looks like your character is rubbing off on you with the extra s's :P

Yeah i actually often have to look for additional s's in my messages after playing. x)

9 minutes ago, Tayswift said:

Looks like your character is rubbing off on you with the extra s's :P

I don't think humans necessarily need to be buffed. They're pretty good, and people will play them if only for the familiarity, not to mention that people who play any other race will probably freak out.

As for unathi, I think it would be interesting if there was something like skrell headpockets that's flavorful but doesn't give a clear advantage, as opposed to buffing the raw numbers. Skrell headpockets was actually not my idea though...I'm not creative enough to think of something that cool off the top of my head. But I have a feeling that would have more of a chance of making it past Github.

I just came up with a funny strategy for skrells. Keeping banana peels in headpockets, if stuff really falls out of it when you fall down it can be a cool trick up your sleeve against those unwary foes.

Additionaly why i thought giving unathi slight ressistance is fine is because everyone seems okay with kidan being ressistant and voxes with greys being fragile. By the way, grey players are awesome. I'am yet to find a grey i dislike.

But yeah i can understand why merging even that 5% is not gonna work. As i often see, even good ideas that everyone agrees upon don't get merged, no matter how easy to code, from no need to code at all.

[Unathi's robust scales!]

25 minutes ago, Tayswift said:

Hmm, I think you're right that 5-10% brute resistance probably won't be that bad, but from personal experience pushing through the Skrell headpockets PR, I think people in general are wary of making anything human+. In fact, I think Skrell headpockets probably could've been a little stronger given that shooting a skrell with an ethanol syringe disables them for a long time.

Maybe there's a more flavorful way of implementing scales instead of just a straight up damage resistance buff? Something that's unique and interesting that maybe also has a minor drawback? I think the peeps on Github might like that better.

I'd honestly would just suggest sturdier bones but i figured it could be hard to implement. If it was up to me, i'd also add slight radiation ressistance to unathi, given they come from planet that suffered nuclear war, would make sense if they adapted.

By the way, i came up with a thing that can be added to humans, they can be made 30% more resisstant to suffocation due to how atmospherics are tweaked for humans first, so they have healthier lungs.  Or they heal and restore blood from food more than other races, since again, human food on human station. Or if you really want humans to shine, give them 3 or 5% stun ressist. Now thats something that could make big difference, but at the same time not likely, if to say both were stunned by flashbang, human would have a clear advantage. If there would be more humans on station because of that change, i say only yes, i would feel a lot more special playing as different race. I actually decided to play as unathi because they were rare, then there was sort of more and more of them until i stoped being special snow flake but i got really attached to my character. :(

Edit: There is still one more idea for unathis i have in mind. Make them less likely to start bleeding or have internal bleed from damage, basicly scales are hard to puncture but they are not that different from skin when it comes to fractures. Although i feel like 5% brute resist is easiest and most reasonable, they are after all giant reptilian predators with robust bones and scales.

[Unathi's robust scales!]

1 hour ago, Tayswift said:

I kinda agree with this but I feel like your argument flies better on a higher RP server. Here, the issue is that if you make anything that is a hint of human+, powergamers may end up picking it just for that slight advantage. So things have to be balanced with that in mind.

If i were to power game, i'd probably play drask only. Fire is easily extinguishable and the internals that heal you sound amazing, main damage from space is cold too so drasks are practicly space proof. I doubt powergamers are big issue on server, even the slime people being a very powerful race not powergamers, i'am yet to find one slime that powergames. Regardles, i always RP as unathi as if i'm hard to hit and superior in strength, i just wanted it to be a tiny bit more than rp.

Also humans could easily get some interesting buff too. You just gotta figure out what you can add.

If you want to tone down powergamers, you look not at races but at science department. Besides, i don't think powergamers picking up slight advantage from certain races is a big deal. It shouldn't be discouraging us. 

[Unathi's robust scales!]

2 minutes ago, necaladun said:

Not at all. If you had two toolboxes, one did 10 damage, the other did 11 damage, with no other differences, then one is objectively superior. 

If you've never seen two people engage in a toolbox fight to the death, observe more - you'll see it quite regularly. As an admin with attack logs, trust me in that it happens. 

 

Other races having bonuses with no downsides justifies them being nerfed - not giving a strong combat advantage to your preferred race of choice.

Or it justifies it to make every race slightly powerful in something making them more unique and interesting to play. If you nerf every race to make them more balanced you do make them less fun.

At the end of the day, ss13 combat isn't about fair fights, one who plays not fairly wins. Agent isn't going to give you an e-sword so you both can fight fairly. Hell, he'll just sleepy pen you and debrain you, giving you no chance.

I would still argue that 11 against 10 damage would make no big difference.

Deciding factor wouldn't be that 1 damage because: unfair player > lucky player > more skilled player > player with slight advantage in stats. And as i said. One player will always be better than other. I have yet to find two players with identical skills and if these would fight, again, lucky one would win rather than the one with 1 bonus damage. This is why this is by far not objectively superior and rather minor.

In a way, if you know you're superior in direct combat compared to your opponent, you're unfair player.

At the end of the day, it's not the damage that generally decides winner, it's the one who stuns first or has stun protection. Either by luck, or being better at clicking and planning.

[Unathi's robust scales!]

18 minutes ago, necaladun said:

Player vs player, a 10% brute reduction means one is objectively stronger and going to win in a toolbox-vs-toolbox match or the like. After 10 hits, they'll be in crit, but you won't. 

Lore is not justification to make someone that objectively superior. It not being a "competitive" game does not mean we're going to ignore such balance issues - especially when there are so many competitive aspects to the game. Making one race objectively superior in combat would be a terrible move to the overall balance of the game.

Skrell have a few very minor plusses and minuses. Headpockets, but are able to be murdered by ethanol quicker. Minor, flavourful things that have very little impact on combat.

 

Objectively superior is kind of an over reaction. While it's true if both players are identicly good and lucky, unathi one would win. This is an extremely rare case that i have never ever even seen. One player will always be better or worse than the other and less or more lucky. In toolbox scenario - the one to get knocked down loses, not the one who has slight resist to brute damage. And stronger player will always hit more times. I did get into a fight once or twice with kidan and their robust chitin, i practicly didn't even notice it. And thats twice as much brute resist compared to what i suggested. (i did win)

As for balance. There are other races with bonuses and no downsides. Vulps and tajaran are pretty much with nightvision once they get mesons. (I hunt swarmers in maints with flashlight turned off all the time, the advantage is very noticeable) Darkness is very robust if you use it to your advantage. And slime people, i'd argue they are so far the most powerful race. They have a lot of noticable benefits only for not being able to be cloned and cold vulnerability .

[Unathi's robust scales!]

7 minutes ago, necaladun said:

Adding such a bonus with no downsides would be just silly. Their tails sticking out does not counteract this - as many other races have similar problems, and this has no impact on non-stealth antags. 

Don't forget this isn't competetive game. Besides, on player against player it wouldn't change much. It would however make difference when fighting big spiders and alike stuff, even then - small difference.

Skrells for instance have their head pockets and there is no downside to it, everyone seems okay with it.

[Unathi's robust scales!]

I'd suggest we add 5 or 10% brute ressistance to unathi to support how lore-wise they are predator-warrior-ish species who prefer melee over ranged weapons and happen to have robust bones. Also because scales are far less fragile compared to skin.

If to say antag unathis would somehow become overpowered, (I know there are people out there who would say it) keep in mind, stealthing as antag unathi is very hard because your tail always sticks out and unathis commonly have unique colours  so it's easy to tell who is who.

 

[New Potential Magboot Sprites?]

If these were merged in game i would suddenly find my self liking magboots. I just refuse to wear magboots even if i have them, instead putting them in backpack just in case, even then i rarely do that.

I would actually stop hating new atmos, because i'd be wanting to wear magboots more often since they look awesome.

On the side note i think having lights on both boots would be better. But either way they look amazing.

Really hope these sprites make it into game. But even then dumbdumn sprites are always great. (looking at that unathi sec hardsuit, maintainers Y U NO ADD IT?)

[Mini-Antag: Luminary]

Many yes. It's a great idea. I would only love it.

[Change rules regarding to violence]

Many times i have seen 2 players get into a fight, naturally fights rarely end with both players being in good condition, because both will want to "win" aka render some one incapable of hitting back and i've seen many times it end with them both being admin stunned. Why? I mean, both wanted to fight, non ahelped, so why intervene with the admin stuns? If there is no intervention it will just end with them both going to medbay and moving on with their life. Surely if one kills another then thats over board. But i don't think i saw it happen once.

In my opinion if two non-antag players fight each other and they are cool with it, there shouldn't be anything done against that.

Or if one player is clearly letting other player know that his actions are provoking him into a fight and he can easily avoid it, if fight starts, no need for intervention.

I feel like this is how it should be.

[imsxz (Ares/Aphrodite) retirment]

Oh... outside being the biggest threat, I remember you for being nice too.

Kinda sucks that i won't get to try to catch you now that i've become a bit more robust.

I do hope you come back.

Edit: You've become sort of like a symbol of robustness to me, robustness so great that gods had to stop you. A legend.

Legends never die.

[Using walk to fight fastmos.]

47 minutes ago, DocSocrates said:

My dude, remember that this is 2d spritemens in space. If we really want realism, I expect a tiny hole in front of the bridge to obliterate that entire section of the station. Everything that isn't nailed to the ground should be sucked out into the vacuum of space. 

I don't believe walking, or "simulated" holding onto something would suffice over an actual grab function made for walls, tables, or anything the like. It's only a matter of paying attention when avoiding fastimos ridden areas.

Edit: *vacuum over vacume 

When i said realistic you took it way too far, i guess i could've phrased it better. I meant if we are going to have /more/ realistic atmos. I for one don't care about realism a lot in games.

[Using walk to fight fastmos.]

There is one more idea. Using crowbar to grapple onto walls. You click on the wall and as long as you're around that wall, you're fine, then you click on another wall to move on and so on.

One mistake - crowbar flies away, you're doomed.

[Shadow people and golems.]

3 hours ago, Jovaniph said:

That's the mistake. You killed a shadow person.

A Shadow Person is actually a person that made themselves that way. They are not created/spawned.
https://gyazo.com/ca6b4851b2a64d445b85071669dba5e7

I think i just realised what happened, golems that were turned into shadow people, so i guess shadowpeople are still relevant to this topic.

[Shadow people and golems.]

20 minutes ago, Shadeykins said:

Keep it on topic, please.

If you need to discuss a ban appeal/ban, the ban appeal subforum/admin complaints subforum is the place to do that.

Sorry, we kinda drifted into it. Besides, my appeal is collecting dust. T_T

[Shadow people and golems.]

The change i suggest requires no code change but rather change of how they are treated OOC.

I suggest that golems and shadow people are treated not same way as crew. But more like as pets with ability to harm, much like sentient spider or diona nymph. (Unless it's crew turned into shadowman or golem) Because it makes a whole lot more sense.

Because they are not crew and not even pets. Meaning that IC you wouldn't break law by harming/killing them but in OOC if you kill one it's a huge deal, meanwhile he respawns as another golem 3 minutes later.

The fact that you have to put up with them as if they are crew is often very frustrating. Because of how antagonists can create them constantly and you have to figure out if they are bad or not.

Ian eats all food in kitchen and gets killed - nobody bats an eye. Golem is being nuisance and gets killed - huge deal.

Killing Ian (A harmless pet, one of a kind and property of station) breaks law. Killing golem (A possible threat that can be reproduced) doesn't break law but is a huge offence OOC.

What gives?

[Using walk to fight fastmos.]

43 minutes ago, Streaky Haddock said:

Well, we already have code that detects if someone's standing on a table, right? Tables could be a good place to start for wind resistance.

Climbing to a table would be impossible with even slightest space wind. Unless some one pushes you at it.

 

Why i suggested near walls to be ressistant is because i presume it'd be relatively easy to code due to how you can't move in zero gravity if there's nothing near you.

Besides making it completely ressistant to wind is not only option, could just be very ressistant, like you'd still be slowly pushed. I think it'd just be at least a very interesting game mechanic even if not realistic, as spacemanspark pointed out you can't grab smooth walls. But then again, if we talk realism magboots only magnetise your feet to the floor, meaning your body would be wobbling all around due to space wind. I'd imagine you'd get your legs broken too.

[Using walk to fight fastmos.]

I guess if no one likes this idea... we're stuck on magboots meta. 

I miss old forgiving atmos.

[Using walk to fight fastmos.]

4 minutes ago, Streaky Haddock said:

Get good scientists. Wear magboots.

They aren't too expensive once you get your uranium. Youranium, even.

There's one thing... magboots are UGLY. Probably the main thing i dislike about new fastmos, it encoutrages me to wear ugly magboots. And i like to pretend IC that they are heavy, like captain's space armor. Gladly some space suits and clothes hide magboots.

[Using walk to fight fastmos.]

New atmos is very dangerous but it's more annoying than it's dangerous because it's almost impossible to fight it without magboots.

I suggest that players can't be pushed around or knocked down as long as they are in walk mode and near wall, basicly simulate grabbing onto something to not get tossed around.

If we are going to have realistic atmos why don't we have realistic ways to fight it? With it atmos would still be very dangerous if you don't pay attention, and if you pay attention you'll live.

[Machine people level up.]

Honestly the entire point of this suggestion is to give IPc's some way to defend them selves against EMP.

Though i feel other suggested things would be good too. When buying machine people i expected to feel like a robot that you'd break a hand if you hit it, instead i felt like B1 droid. Hell even B1 droid can survive space (i think). x)

It's just that they are both easy to kill sneakily and in direct fight. There is still EMP flashlight and it's very cheap, remember? Organics can even heal them selves right in a fight easily, they just slap patches on them selves. Perhaps the best thing IPc's have is that they don't have bones which can break.

Even if all things i suggested would be added, IPc's would still be the same and you'd still be able to kill them like you used to but now they'd be capable of removing their huge downsides although partially or only in exchange for other downside.

[Machine people level up.]

47 minutes ago, Rumiluntti said:

Giant buff to IPCs, a race that does not need a buff.
This almost seems like a IPC player wishlist.

Actually i play as IPC rarely simply because of how they are inferior to other races. I just compared organics and IPC's and came up with ideas to make them on par with organics. In direct combat they lose because they are breakable easily. If you want to kill them sneakily you can easily make emp nade or buy cheap as hell emp flashlight. Thats some huge downsides in comparison to organics.  

Or perhaps they don't need a buff because they are meant to be inferior?