[Grey Rework]

Currently at 2 weeks since fludd's last post, no feedback and it appears the changes that were requested were done.

[Grey Rework]

Boy I love when bullshit like Taj veils gets speed merged but completed mechanical features are left without feedback for months.

 

This is how you demonstrate good codebase management and encourage people to code anything but furry race features.

[Grey Rework]

Is there some reason that the PR has been ready to merge with no comments or action taken in 16 days?

 

This seems like a good, easy to revert change that someone worked hard on and over two weeks have passed since it was deemed ready without additional comments.

[Naming Rules Discussion]

 

What I love about this poll is that 75% of the responders want either no fictional names or allow only obscure ones.

 

I'm glad this has been done, but we've been telling staff some basic things like this for months to years now, and I will be interested to see whether the wishes of the community will be taken into account.

 

I hope, this time, they are.

 

[Diversifying the races]

 

Making the raсed standart removes the very reason different raсes exist. Whats sense in being lizard when it have almost no differenсes from ordinary human? Only humans are supposed to be a standart "Jaсk of all trades and master of none" raсe whiсh have no signifiсant bonuses nor signifiсant debuffs whiсh allows them to be on average level in every task they would like to do. While other raсes are supposed to be more speсialized in that matter. It would be neat if every raсe would have its own "hat" for something. Like being superior at jobs in one department while medioсre in enother. So only very few skilled members of any speсies would be seen outside of their superior department. Humans will be average at everything and will be everywhere.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats

 

That's a good design goal. From what I've read of the code, when it comes to the races either the coders are afraid to add anything that innovates, or they don't have a good understanding of mechanics and player psychology.

 

Kidan and grey both need major work. Kidan need something appealing, which they currently lack in exchange for the massive downside that is no eyewear. Allowing single click aggressive grabs would be appropiate in power level for that much of a tradeoff. Their armor is bad.

 

Grey could be awesome with some short range (3 tile) telepathy. They already have some hefty downsides.

 

[Diversifying the races]

 

No, Making them to eat food that will be another debuff for them.

If anything just leave them along, they just fine as is, don't need to be mess with...

Why all the hate for Diona, what have they ever done to you??? I'm serious about this, I'm Not joking round... What Have They Done To You For All This Hate???

Wew lad I think you're overthinking it a little there, I don't even play diona but on paper they're mostly balanced.

Not ideal, but "balanced", could probably do with another little something to make up for that speed loss.

I consider diona to be very much on the weak side, as someone who played them exclusively.

I don't play the pod people so it's good to have the opinion of someone who does.

The speed reduction is the big negative they get, instead of throwing in a bunch of stuff about rads which would no doubt require IPC levels of code snowflaking probably better to just make them not quite so slow.

I've murdered a lot of diona with plant spray and it is a bit overkill, having it act like acid for their skin that nullifies their regening and makes them rapidly become malnourished instead of a u ded spray would be better.

And they're de facto space proof aren't they? Just need to bring a light source with them?

 

Diona are already coded to gain nutrition and heal from rads.

 

A (probably) easy way of diversifying the species a bit would be to make herbivores and carnivores only able to get nutrition from plants and meat respectively.

 

This is of course assuming that this isn't already the case. There are diet flags for this, but I don't think they do anything.

A lot of the little differences like that and glove clipping was purged because balance and species standardisation.

Probably won't get back in since the gleichschaltung is ongoing.

 

Removing the glove clipping doesn't make any sense to me. It just seems like a lazy move that buffs clawed races who are already better than humans mechanically.

 

[Diversifying the races]

 

I submitted a nice wall of text for you.

 

Diona are fine as is IMO, plenty of buffs with a decent drawback and an Achilles heel.

If anything they're a pretty good template for what the other races should be, requiring a slightly different playstyle whilst not be too OP or too weak.

 

I consider diona to be very much on the weak side, as someone who played them exclusively.

 

Dionae have 4 major weaknesses. They're slow, viruses rapidly kill them, they can't wear hardshits, and plant-b-gone does like 50 toxin damage per spray. They used to heal toxin damage and have extra brute damage, and could benefit from genetics radiation and super speed. That was all nerfed and removed, leaving them in a sad state. Btw, diona are actually some of the most resistant to fire of all the species.

 

There is no job that a diona does more effectively than a human. The lower speed kills their productivity and any job dealing with radiation or vacuum offers a hardsuit, which diona can't even use for the armor.

 

From a lore perspective, diona feed on radiation, largely solar radiation but not exclusively. Personally, I think it's fine to have them gain nutrition from light, but cause them to rapidly lose nutrition while healing even in the light. Diona do have mouths and can eat and drink, but this would limit the sustained healing diona are capable of, as they would run out of nutrition amd then have their healing stop until they could build up enough for the next tick. You could also reduce their slowdown (but still leave them the slowest) and have them heal all four damage types at the rate that they heal burns.

 

I'd support removing dionae mouths (meaning they can't stuff themselves and can only get nutrition from light and radiation) but that would make them immune to facehuggers.

 

[Diversifying the races]

It's appropiate that Diona aren't even on that list, because that's how much dev attention they get.

[It's about time we had a serious talk...]

 

How do you justify calling Vulpkanin "overpowered vs. humans" and then elsewhere in your argument call them "superficially no different from humans"? It's one or the other, not both. But now that I've pointed this out I bet you're going to move your goalposts. I don't think you've done this intentionally out of any sense of malice. Hell, maybe I've misunderstood one or both of your points but the way you've worded them here, even taken in context, is absolutely mutually exclusive.

 

 

 

As a side note you never actually make a case for why there's so many IPCs on our server. Not really important to the topic at hand but I'm still interested in what you have to say there.

 

 

 

Vulps are mechanically superior but don't have /different/ RP and mechanics from humans. They have better fist attacks and nightvision but that doesn't really change the way they play compared to a human. Food is the same, healing is the same, vulnerabilites are the same. If you had humans with 150% hp they would be mechanically superior while not actually playing differently.

 

 

 

 

 

From a purely mechanical sense, people often pick races that either have abilities they like, or because they avoid a mechanic the player doesn't like dealing with. A player might pick slimes because they like being able to regrow limbs, tajvulps for the night vison, or IPC because of the easy self-healing.

 

 

 

Similarly, IPC are immune to many things that make them need to rely on others. Bleeding/broken bones/viruses/food/radiation/poisons are all things they don't need to deal with, and can also weld without going blind which makes them convenient for many types of disasters. They have two major weaknesses, namely that they take extra brute damage and can be insta-junked by an EMP.

 

 

 

This balances them, but also gives an independent player many benefits. The 15 karma cost is also not much of a barrier.

 

In contrast, Diona are similarly independent, have no karma cost, yet are wildly unpopular. The reason for this is despite the advantages, Diona have 3 crippling weaknesses. The first is their slow movement, the second is plant-b-gone, and the third is that if they are infected by a virus they rapidly die. Of these three, the most significant is the slowdown because it negatively impacts everything the player tries to do. Most of the Dionae benefits are replicated by a hardsuit and some healing chems, and without the level of slowdown.

 

 

 

 

 

On a magical ideal server, sure, each species would have equal representation. The truth is that people are generally going to gravitate towards a type of character they're comfortable with, hence the fact that the overwhelming majority of characters on every server are Human. Now consider the fact that a goodly proportion of the other popular SS13 servers don't offer Vulpkanin as an option, and in many of them Tajaran characters are considered "lesser" in some way (whether that means they're valid at all times or they aren't allowed to play Command jobs or any other way in which they're treated differently from other species).

 

Paradise is inclusive and welcoming to players who are actively shunned by other servers. In fact, it's similar to the idea that any player who can't or won't conform to our ruleset goes and finds another server to play on. Paradise does not need to pander or cater to "furry" players, they come willingly looking for a place where they won't be shunned. We don't hold "furry" players above anyone else, we simply make sure that players don't call them "furfag", much like we wouldn't let a player call a Human character "faggot" or any other sort of hate speech.

 

I will agree that karma-locking species influences the number of that species found in-game, but game mechanics often have surprisingly little to do with it.

 

Yes, but that is why paradise has become considered a "furry" server, because while vulps don't appear to be intended as a "furry feature" that is the impression other people are given. Not saying that is a problem, but it's worth being aware of.

 

The difference when vulps do it is that vulps are socially the same as humans in fursuits. They don't have unique vocabulary, or culture, or ethos. The only thing that separates them from humans is superficial changes so in a practical sense, it becomes a meta-clique. Vox can make vox-environment rooms, screech at each other in vox-pidgin and talk about how skrek the station is outside of Voxtopia.

 

 

 

Also, because of the reputations the species have, if two vulps go into a room together, I'm going to assume it's to either do relationship RP or ERP over skype/discord.

 

 

 

As Tully has pointed out lore has very little say in how most players play their characters. Even Vox players don't always follow lore (case in point, several well-known Vox who speek perfect Galactic Common.) I get your point that what makes a Vox a Vox has to do with all the little pieces that fit together, and I even agree with you up to a point. My problem is that your issues with Vulps don't seem to extend to the other species that are similar. Aren't Skrell, Unathi, and Tajarans essentially reskinned Humans with superficial differences? Your dislike of the Vulpkanin species comes off as insincere when you try to claim it's because they're just a carbon copy of another species without including these other species in your argument. To those of us who don't care about players' species preferences it really seems like you're focusing on Vulpkanin for other reasons, and actively trying to hide what those reasons are.

 

Vulps are to my knowlege, the only cut and paste new species, the rest of the "humans in suits" are from baycode. They become more of a focus due to being a deliberate addition, as a very visible example of the features that the maintainers felt were important enough to add.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Given that there are rules against ERP on the server I fail to see what sexual attraction has to do with anything here. And I'm not sure what use there is in speculating about the Vulp-to-Taj ratio is when you yourself admit that it's to prove whether or not someone is playing out their "fursona". Despite that you still seem quite eager to judge Vulp players by their choice of species rather than by their actions in-character. Since you're going to speculate without evidence I'll feel free to do the same: I'd be willing to bet that the number of Vulpkanin characters and the number of Tajaran characters aren't nearly as different as you think they are.

 

When I played, the ratio was something like 3:1 from what I saw in NA evenings. Which if true would be statistically significant, though the significance itself is harder to prove.

 

 

 

Throwing around the term "mary sue" is, again, meaningless on a server where every player is allowed to know every job and every antagonist. You are conveniently framing these characters in a way that deliberately excludes species that you don't have a problem with, while ignoring that plenty of species suffer from these very same problems. Again, it comes off as if you're trying to conceal some other reason for focusing your argument on Vulpkanin.

 

I'll be honest here. From my point of view the majority of your arguments against Vulpkanin seem to be about making them out to be this dangerous, unstable "other" element that needs to shunned in order for Paradise to survive as a server.

 

I fully believe that the opposite is true. Vulpkanin players (and "furry" players in general) are regularly shunned and pushed out of other communities. For all of Paradise's faults our ability to remain inclusive and welcoming to players of every stripe is one of our greatest strengths and one of the reasons we have remained relatively popular during a fairly rocky year.

 

If you don't want to play on Paradise because "muh furries" that's not on us, that's on you.

 

As a side note I do want to say you've been a lot more civil in this discussion than you have in previous posts on our forums. I do notice and appreciate it.

 

In my excessively long posts in this thread, my goal was not to say "vulps should be removed, furries are trash" but to explain why the ss13 community as a whole has an impression of paradise as a furry server, and to explain why the server gets so much shit for vulps. From the outside, it appears to be an addition purely because fox wanted it, and that vulps were a feature added by furries, for furries, on a server that has become a furry server. Vulps having cut and paste mechanics and weak, boring lore makes it look like a feature that should never have met your standards to begin with, leading to the more obvious accusation.

 

Whether there is any truth to that doesn't change it from being the impression that you get from the subreddit and other server communities, and thus will continue to be a source of conflict until things are changed.

 

I've spent a great deal of time trying to explain the problems, and why people make the assumptions they do.

 

Allow me to provide some concrete suggestions.

 

1) Take a long hard look at all human-like races and how to give them something both mechanically unique as well as distinctive roleplay.

 

Skrell/Taj/Vulp/Unanthi all have varying degrees of deficiencies in these areas.

 

2) Look at some of the races that are rarely played (kidan/grey/possibly diona) and consider incremental buffs to help increase diversity.

 

3) Enforce racial RP. If you're a vox, you talk like a shitbird because it makes everything better. Unless you have an excellent backstory, speaking perfect common is not fun or interesting.

 

4) Nerf the tesla into the ground. Not !!Fun!! enough compared to Lord Singuloth.

 

5) Stop the feature freeze.

 

6) Make atmos scarier.

 

[It's about time we had a serious talk...]

 

I can personally assure you, that person you are (obviously) referring to does not even rank in the Top 100 Worst Snowfleks once you actually get to interact with them in-game. In fact, they are actually immensely competent at their chosen jobs, and legitimately fun to interact with.

 

It is easy to make sweeping statements based on superficial evidence. It is harder to get through the surface and actually gather information relevant to the discussion. Blanket statements make for horrible arguments when you are dealing with unique individuals.

 

I've played with Von Bon before, and I've played with Yuki Frost. I've never had any issue playing with Von Bon, and Yuki Frost is cancer that is independent of species. Individuals can easily be mature about even playing a snowflake they're emotionally invested in. On average, people are not which is why it's bad practice.

 

 

Lack of variety is an issue. Hopefully we can start working on it Post-Freeze, assuming we can come up with interesting ideas.

 

I pretty much can explain why there are so many vulps and IPC on para. For the former, it's a combination of being overpowered with no weaknesses (no downsides vs human) and people who have canine or fox fursonas that drives their population higher.

 

If everything was equal, we'd have equal numbers of each species. Instead, we often have 1-2 each of Skrell, Diona, Grey, Kidan, Drask and large numbers of humans, vulps, IPC. Part of that is karma locking, and part of that is the mechanics of the race.

 

 

 

EDIT: Fox has since informed me that the Tesla has actually been nerfed and now produces LESS power than the Singularity.

 

Goes to show my entire argument about information, really, even if it is at my own expense.

 

Less power meaning it cannot supply the entire station? Tbh, I think it just should be removed entirely because it doesn't add anything. We already had singulo and solar panels, each of which could entirely power the station.

 

 

 

Vox are screechy shitbirds who are played with all the charisma and concern with collateral damage of Rick Sanchez from Rick and Morty

 

This actually made me chuckle. Stopping the text wall here just to say that. The issue here is that this is wishful thinking. From personal experience, as an Administrator, Non-Vox player and Vox player, a large portion of the Vox characters you see are a single gentle push away from acting as a species-wide metaclique to the nth degree. In all my time here, I have had infinitely more issues with Vox players acting like Speciestide than anything remotely related to any of the more "traditionally" furry races.

 

And before that, it was Slime people. Compared to these two, Taj/Vulp are tame little babbies.

 

I don't have a problem with a species who IC forms a clique, and Vox would absolutely be expected to exhibit more behavior like that.

 

Lore-wise, Vox on NT stations are basically outcasts from their own people because Vox have their own culture and don't appear to be part of the human/skrell/diona/grey/taj/vulp/lizard collective.

 

More importantly, they can't even survive in the station environments without internals. Any station with vox crew would have a designated nitrogen atmosphere sleeping quarters where only Vox/Diona/IPC would be able to live, and vox engineers tend to like to make such areas as there's an easy button for adapting the atmosphere.

 

Vox have their own unique speech patterns and roleplay, which gives them the strongest and most distinct species identity. Unlike other species like diona and IPC, there's no species kill button that can be used to hardcounter unruly vox. A diona uprising is dealt with using spray bottles of plant-b-gone, piece of cake.

 

They're also karma-locked, which means only people who have played here for a significant amount of time will be playing vox, meaning they generally know the mechanics well and play regularly.

 

It's not a meta-clique, it's a species faction that can reach critical mass and separate from the station as a whole. This is /awesome/ for roleplay because it gives players something to react to and band around against.

 

The difference when vulps do it is that vulps are socially the same as humans in fursuits. They don't have unique vocabulary, or culture, or ethos. The only thing that separates them from humans is superficial changes so in a practical sense, it becomes a meta-clique. Vox can make vox-environment rooms, screech at each other in vox-pidgin and talk about how skrek the station is outside of Voxtopia.

 

Also, because of the reputations the species have, if two vulps go into a room together, I'm going to assume it's to either do relationship RP or ERP over skype/discord.

 

If two vox go into a room together, I'm concerned they're going to make a bomb.

 

 

 

It is still treating someone negatively based entirely on a harmless personal preference. Which... yes, in my opinion kinda ranks it near those two things in terms of how irrational it is. Someone simply being a furry in no way impacts anyone. Acting like their mere existence is unwelcome is exactly why they flock to places where people act decently to them.

 

But I don't want or need to know who you are sexually attracted to while playing a 2d farting spessman simulator

 

I can assure you, if anyone does that, we ban them.

 

Unless you are making an assumption that because someone is a furry, they are sexually attracted to anthropomorphic animals by default. If so, see my "blanket statements" statement above.

 

Vulp in particular are a huge magnet for furry fetishists

 

[Citation needed]

 

Being a furry heavily implies a sexual attraction towards anthropomorphic animals, and identifying with a particular one which becomes a fursona. These are very common for people who self-identify as being a furry, and Vulp cater to the top three species of fursona. This doesn't mean every person who plays vulp is a furry and is playing out their fursona... but they are definitely there and not just a few. Hard to prove, but statistically there must be some reason that vulps are so much more common than taj.

 

 

 

The issues with overall game design and code direction are being handled Staff-side. While we cannot provide details, if everything goes as planned, we will be seeing an increase in experimentation and overall innovation.

 

Good

 

 

 

Our ban policy has actually gotten more lenient as time went by. There are several bans from early in the server's history that would be unthinkable today, and as I mentioned elsewhere, there are several Staff Members that will go to the ends of the Earth to avoid giving you a ban when a warning is enough.

 

Good

 

Once again, it is easy to draw conclusions based on incomplete information. Its treating those conclusions as ultimate fact that leads to drama llamas like the ones in Reddit.

 

It's also easy to ignore uncomfortable correlations by dismissing them using anecdotes that are an exception. I again appreciate the discussion we've had, and I like the attitudes you've expressed so far, at worst I could call you over-optimistic and naive.

 

I don't see how playing yourself is on the same levels as a mary sue character...they aren't even the same. One is simply roleplaying as yourself in a fictional situation and the other is bad writing or metagaming.

 

A mary sue is an idealized self-insert, which is where the similarity comes in. As a result, they lead to similar problems of identifying too strongly with their own character.

 

 

That's an issue with the player not able to identify between IC and OOC. If they burst out in violence or in the chat they will be dealt with by the staff however they see fit. In my experience, since the beginning playing as a human I always played as my self for no other reason than I wanted to be my self and make friends as my self. That held true for several times when I switched over to Vulp. But over time they became their own character, developed from in-game events I took to accept as cannon, IC friends, hell I even eventually cobbled them together into a backstory (horribly outdated now and probably written drivel at this point.). My Von Bon does plenty of things I would never do IRL simply because he is now their own character that was molded from myself but I still more or less 'play as myself' in most regards because that is simply how I wish to interact with other people. The exception being when I get antag roles where I come up with some faff to be completely not-myself.

 

I respect that you've grown a distinct character though not particularly surprised because when we've played together I had absolutely no issues with you as a player.

 

When someone is intentionally playing themselves or a fursona, they've deliberately blurred the line between IC and OOC, and that leads to excessive attachment and butthurt when things don't go their way. Not /all/ the time, but far more often for the same reason we feel more strongly about people we know dying vs strangers.

 

 

Regarding my avatars : I wear them not because they are what I like but because I highly appreciated the artists that took their free time to draw my character and some without provocation ( I even linked their forum threads in the description). I wear them as a badge that happens to look like my character and considering I don't want to play another character I wear it appropriately here in the forums. It was only after much while longer that I changed my 7-8 year old steam avatar to something more fresh and did away with an even older and childish username ( the glories of old runescape days).

 

To me, this sounds like rationalization to me for that improbable series of events, but hey, you do you.

 

 

I...don't understand this. Every character you RP has their own identity, do they not? I highly doubt they would not considering you do not seem the type to want to play factory-made (straight from a book/manual or cliche) characters or mary sues which is all good and everything.

 

When I play a character I try to make someone who has a well-rounded personality that is within my limits to pull off (I cannot effectively simulate genius level intellect because I do not have genius level intellect. People who are distinctly uncharismatic trying to play charismatic characters similarly fall flat).

 

The difference is that that character and the things that happen to them are completely separate from me and my feelings. If I play myself and someone genuinely doesn't like them, that means they don't like me. If I play someone else, someone not liking them doesn't reflect on me in any way, and some characters I've played were intentionally dislikeable.

 

Well this is pretty much immediately debunked when you take it case by case. Never have I been toxic as a person or a player. Proof of that is never having been banned anywhere. As for snowflakes read what I wrote about it earlier ( what better way to avoid being 'generic'?).

If you want to see REAL examples of toxic people & players then look onto those with bans ( not saying all are irredeemable). There's a part of the forum dedicated to it or better yet head on over to r/ss13 where people brag about their ban accounts, evasions, or shitting on others that liked something because they chose to hate it.

 

Afaik, you as an individual has never been toxic, and I'm not saying you are. I am saying that people who get too attached to their characters often create toxic drama, and when someone's character is literally themselves.

 

 

You said earlier I wasn't roleplaying because I was playing a vulp and assumed I was playing as a fursona and as myself ( the former not being true and the latter still an assumption even if correct).

 

You being questionably roleplaying didn't really have anything to do with playing a vulp, but with playing yourself/a fursona. However, vulps represent the most common types of fursona (fox/wolf/dog) and thus it is /more likely/ that a vulp player is in fact playing a fursona. A non-zero number of vulps on the server at any one time are assumed to be playing fursonas or snowflakes.

 

It is an assumption in the same way I don't trust a bald assistant lurking in the maint tunnels. It's not absolute that they're going to murder me, but it's more likely.

 

 

 

 

 

You are side stepping his point this time. He isn't talking about race mechanics or lore. He is referring to how a good chunk ( not all) Vox players : form cliques, pamper up like 'snowflakes', speciest or make huge preferences on themselves, and generally every other thing that taj/vulp players are being yelled at....again why do they get the free pass but none of the other anthro species?

 

I could go on but I simply can't word it better than those that already have, again.

 

I don't think Vox forming vox cliques is a problem as long as it's purely IC. Different species aren't expected to be chummy, and voxtiding is likely to end in hilarity.

 

Based on the people who play vox vs vulps, if a vox takeover of the ship happens it's pretty likely they're going to be holed up in the bridge taking turns making ridiculous insults to the rest of the crew in barely intelligible poorly-conceived gibberish. Once the rest of the crew breaks in I assume there's going to either be a bomb or a nasty biological agent released, with all the vox dying as a result.

 

If vulps take over the ship, they're probably either Captain and HoS/HoP already and they'll swiftly get robusted except for one meth-infused supervulp and admins will get a bunch of salty ahelps. So basically, same as if you had humans takeover. Boring.

 

OK, if people like Toroic and the Staff are both willing to take time out of their day to make these massive wall's of text, then surely there is enough mutual interest in the game's improvement to reach a compromise?

 

There is a widespread dislike for the Vulpkanin, inside this server and out, and there is a large player base for the Vulpkanin, inside this server and out. The compromise I would propose is to keep the species with the understanding they will be massively improved on in lore and mechanics, and at the same time cracking down on character names/clique behavior that disrupt station functions and RP.

 

My issue with vulps is that their lore sucks and their culture is basically just germanic humanity. They should have something unique both mechanically and culturally. Maybe it's a rigid obedience to pack dynamics, and vulps often violently settle disputes in a ritualized fight. Maybe chocolate is fatal to them. Maybe they get some sort of scent related power.

 

[It's about time we had a serious talk...]

 

As to why para doesn't and has never allowed or encouraged the lynching of or placing restrictions on a certain race is because of player interaction with the game. It's intended that the player has their own agency, and can do mostly as they please, so long as it's within the rules. Genociding a race is something that's generally griefy or unfun for anybody but the genociders, and restrictions on jobs, though they might add roleplay options, are limiting to a degree that doesn't seem right to put on people, nor do I think we'll do it in the future, as we've not had any of these restrictions for so long.

 

It wasn't clear in my post for brevity, but I am in no way suggesting that lynching is a good thing, merely to point out that anti cat/lizard sentiment is something that is common in the community. I don't know that limiting heads to skrell and human is a good change, either. But it is done on other servers.

 

Are you claiming that his argument is invalid because he plays a hybrid race, making a point about mary-sues and playing oneself, or a hybrid of both? I find that it's actually better to play as yourself if you like, so long as that character fits into the world provided. If you talk about yourself or modern day happening in a game taking place in 2560 on a research station filled with crazies, then that's not roleplay, but if you put yourself in the position of somebody on that station employed by NT, doing a job there, that is roleplaying in every sense. You may not be somebody else in personality, but in circumstance, occupation, and knowledge, you very well may be.

 

Playing a mary-sue or playing yourself, the issue is that you have an emotional attachment to that character that can manifest itself in a number of negative ways. Generally, excessive anger when met with failure or permadeath. It can be helpful to draw on some traits you have when playing a character, but to also add some weaknesses you don't, because it helps make a more well-rounded character. People get upset when they die, and the same people who would have flavor text about things like "deep wisdom and empathy can be clearly seen in their azure eyes" are the same people screaming over ahelp when they get dunked by an antag.

 

I agree with you in that adding random races for the sake of offering them is relatively meaningless without supporting their existence with lore and features around it, though I disagree that the effort is meaningless. The race is there, it exists, and it can be changed to be more interesting over time, the problem is getting the talent to do it and getting the right ideas. While I dislike focusing on game balance, races are very important things to keep in check with one another, making them all human isn't the way I want that done, though it certainly stifles a lot of ideas for changes. If you want to see it done successfully, check out the most recent slime person changes PR and see how controversial it was and what changes had to be made prior to its creation or the drask PR

(Major Slime changes https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/3487 ) (Drask https://github.com/ParadiseSS13/Paradise/pull/4187 )

 

As for the roleplay argument, attack the idea, not the player, you continually bring it back to how they're not roleplaying, rather than arguing about what is roleplaying. You can do the latter without the former and still make the same argument without trying to rag on theirs. As for the fursona bit, I don't care if they play a blue man from Space Australia fighting for space rights with a leopard g-string and laser tits, so long as they make it work, it's good with me. Fetishes and such aren't allowed on the server, as per the strictly enforced no ERP rule, if you see them faffing around, don't just rant about furries ruining things with their fetishes, tell an admin that Joe Shmoe is getting his rocks off with Sally or Joe #2 and we'll deal with it.

 

The issue is how strongly someone identifies with their character causes problems. If someone is playing their fursona/themselves, and someone else calls them an incompetent idiot IC after a mistake, they're more likely to take it personally as compared to say, a diona who witnesses a kidan devouring nymphs. The reaction is likely to be violent in both cases, but how personal someone takes it will vary drastically. I have done pnp-style RP and played on neverwinter nights persistent worlds for years, and I don't reuse characters, play myself, or play the same style of character twice in a row because it adds variety and is best practice because the people who only play the same character in every environment get upset when they die and if the environment is persistent, have nothing else to play. It's bad practice.

 

I was harsh, but the player I was referring to has their ss13 humanoid fox also be their steam profile (down to the name) and has a similar forum picture. A foxperson with glasses and a headset. It's an identity, not a character they play. In a larger scheme it's weird but harmless, but bad practice for any sort of "roleplay." The result of that sort of approach is the toxic kind of snowflake characters that are grating on the rest of us.

 

The problem is, currently, that these races don't play massively different, you're right, they have minor stat differences, Taj are weak to heat and can better handle the cold, they have claws that do bleeding damage and they have low light vision that allows mesons to give them essentially night vision across half the screen without any light, they used to have the glove and shoe snipping I mentioned above, which was a decently cool thing as it meant they had to play the character more as that kind of race. Same goes for Unathi, claws, low light vision, heat resistance and weak to cold, they get really slow when that happens. Both have to deal with carnivorous diets, they don't get nutrition from non-meat things, iirc. Vulps are basically the same as taj, so the argument for them can be connected to those. As for the Skrell, they have issues handling alcohol, with the lowest alcohol threshold in the game, they can easily get drunk and that could be used to your advantage as an antag. Kidan can't wear glasses, can eat Diona nymphs, and have natural armor that's higher than any other race in the game. Those were most of the animal hybrid species I could think of, sorry if I missed any.

 

When you break it down, most of those races are just humans+ in a suit mechanically. Weakness to heat or cold the way those races currently are set up are meaningless because generally if you're cold it's because you're in space, and if you're hot you're on fire. If environments varied more things short of immunity would matter, but they aren't so they don't.

 

Basically, they're humans with 8 tile nightvision with mesons, and improved melee damage. Herbivorous and carnivorous food is plentiful, and if an antag wants you dead they won't try to get you drunk to accomplish it. If they have you and a bottle of booze they're going to smash you with it and set you on fire.

 

Kidan, like greys are actually worse than humans because they're given significant weaknesses and a questionable benefit.

 

Losing glasses is a massive penalty that makes Kidan poorly suited to mining, sec, and medical. They gain a 20% resistance to brute damage, but it's multiplicative instead of additive. Most armor gives like 40-60% resistance so an armored Kidan will have 48-72% resist. That might give them one more hit, but is neither interesting or likely to make a difference in the outcome as compared to a human. Not having glasses absolutely does. They're given boring and inconsequential benefits and a crippling penalty for many jobs.

 

I don't believe this to be the case, mostly because it implies that we have done nothing or very little to serve the majority of players and that we've focused entirely on the minority, as you've stated clearly above. This is not the case, as the PRs prior to the feature freeze were mostly tweaks to jobs, bugfixes, mouse hats, cloning fixes, mob refactors, so on. There hasn't been a slew of race changes or race additions all focused towards adding to the current "furry" races that would support the minority that can be heavily inferred by your previous statements. As for policy changes, many of the recent policy changes have been securitycentric and wholly focused on SoP, while the rules are currently under complete revision from Tully primarily, though all of the staff members are to contribute and nothing is passed without majority or headmin agreement.

 

Balancing races is difficult, not because of the coding skill required to do so, but rather the effort to push it through the worries of the maintainers and through the community's general opinion. There was a time where we could merge a number of things and peel them back if something messed up or people didn't have fun, but it's to the point where there has to be an order and things need to go through a series of background processes before they're given to the general public. In addition, coming up with a buff or nerf with a respective counterweight is something difficult to do because you have to take into account the people playing the race, the antags playing against that race, and the situations presented in the game, and it's not easy to think of all the ways the race would interact with its surroundings, as things in SS13 are, as always, not predictable.

 

It's not that difficult to do if the people making decisions are people who understand game mechanics. Taj/vulps are mechanically superior to humans from a very objective standpoint, have been for a long time. Grey and Kidan are mechanically inferior to humans, have been for a long time. There are complex, interesting, and probably better solutions as compared to simply buffing them numerically, but that wasn't done either. Balance is a logical process that can be inspired by emotional appeals and lore, but logic comes first. Democratic processes are not good for that, nor is having people who make emotional decisions in charge, which makes getting smart changes made difficult.

 

To give a specific example, Kidan used to have riot shield armor which made them extremely tanky against many sources of damage as well as being very difficult to robust or even shake awake. It made them overpowered particularly as an antag race. The solution was to neuter them and when a community member improved the sprites a thread was started to balance them mechanically. From what I remember none of the staff took any interest and the thread went 7 pages and then died.

 

You do have to do a multi-facet analysis of each race when making a change, but that's not really hard when you understand the game. You look at how they do as each antag for anything that's potentially broken, and you look at how they interact with every role. It's not hard to figure out that diona miners are not a concern despite their healing factor and spaceproofness, because they can't wear a hardsuit and while they're a safe option that comes with dramatically decreased productivity. They make excellent janitors because they have a vehicle to counteract their slow walking, and can help repair breaches. This takes someone who understands mechanics maybe a few minutes to catch obvious issues if they're methodical.

 

I've mentioned the subtle buffs and nerfs above, though I can agree that many of the suggestions created to change these into more serious differences have been shot down for seemingly bizarre reasons or logic that appears to be broken in some manner. I'd love to see more done to improve these, but again, as said above, community resistance is difficult to overcome, and coming up with the idea to create said difference is no small feat.

I genuinely appreciate that you put forth the effort, and that is really the most concerning type of issue I think para has. For changes, I think that unless it's ready for a PR or a coder's passion project it's just not going to happen, and having it come to a vote heavily favors status quo regardless.

 

The Tesla is under discussion or was under discussion a while back about nerfing its power input significantly so that another power source (solars or the turbine) would be required in order to fully power the station, as the Tesla is a low risk, high reward system in its current state, as for atmos, ZAS discussions or increasing the speed of LINDA has been prevalent for much of the time, though I'd leave it up to the server host, headmins, and maintainers to determine whether or not it's right for their plans or if it's going to be hell on the server. ZAS caused serious issues with the server in the past due to how rapidly decompression was occurring, especially during explosions. As for atmospherics, I'm not well versed in that field, so it's not for me to judge, though I have heard the setup at roundstart requires no modification.

 

My understanding is that the goal was to have a less laggy atmos system, and that is reasonable. That it would need to be less fatal is questionable, but the tesla is not excusable. I played on para pre-tesla, and did engineering before and after. I don't understand why the tesla hasn't been disabled or nerfed. It's been an obvious problem with the community being vocal about it for a while, and yet there is no change. The people who have the power to change that don't appear to care enough to do so, which is concerning.

 

There were some modifications to atmos that were common for increasing efficiency, but absolutely no changes or setup were required. The only unique thing about Atmosia is that they have pipe dispensers for air, and thus are needed to repair broken ones. You could merge atmos and engineering with very little issue because in many rounds neither has much actual work to do.

 

I really appreciate your feedback, and that you appear to be working hard to try to get paradise back on track despite nonsensical barriers.

 

I dislike the attitude that because someone enjoys playing the game as a "furry" race that they're not actually RPing.

 

That's not what I said. I said that if you're playing your fursona or yourself, that's not roleplaying. The difference is of identity. I covered why it was a bad idea in my response to Dumbdumn5.

 

First off, who are you to be telling someone else what's going on in their head? Playing a character that you enjoy and feel comfortable with is a big part of RPing, regardless of what type of character that is. There are a ton of people who just play as "themselves" regardless of the species they choose. There's nothing wrong with doing it, and it is not at all a phenomenon that is unique to Vulp players. The term "mary-sue" means nothing on a server where everyone is allowed to know everything about every job and every antag, and especially now that flavor text is required to only describe things that are visible. Saying that someone is "emotionally invested" in their character just because they happen to play a species you don't like is disingenuous at best and malicious at worst. You're trying to justify a hatred for these players where none should rightly exist.

 

Not all vulps are playing their fursona. Some absolutely are. Canid and feline fursonas are 100% the most common http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/List_of_most_popular_species. In fact, they're 5 out of the top 10. This is not an impression that isn't based on data. Paradise added by far the most popular type of furry race (vulpkanin means foxwolf. The coder that added them uses the handle fox Mccloud on multiple media. The most popular types of fursona are fox, wolf, dog. It doesn't take sherlock holmes or B.F. Skinner to understand that when you make a race like that, you attract furries specifically.

 

A lot of the complaints about Vulpkanin and Tajarans are also applicable to Vox. I have never heard someone complain about groups of Vox running around talking solely in vox-pidgin because that's just one of those things that Vox do, but they get a pass while Vulp/Taj don't, even when Vox do that sort of thing way more often. A lot of people claim it's because Vox are unique and have decent lore, but to me it always comes off as being that way solely because Vox aren't "furry".

 

Vox are played very differently and for very different reasons. It's not because they aren't furry, though because they aren't furry they attract different people. Vox are screechy shitbirds who are played with all the charisma and concern with collateral damage of Rick Sanchez from Rick and Morty. I love seeing them around because their players genuinely play them to be hilarious and the roleplay is very much non-human and consistent. Vox have unique speech patterns and vocabulary and they're by far the race with the most fun RP. Skrek dustlung is skrek.

 

The reason people have an issue with "furries" is because historically they have been an outspoken group online and in some places gained a reputation for being complainers, sort of a proto-SJW group. For most "furry" players that time has long since passed but the stigma has remained and certain people pick up on it as evidence that "furry = trash" when really at this point they're normal people who want to play and enjoy the game, just like everyone else.

 

People who get all up in arms over "furry" species just... I don't understand them at all. This is not a game based on reality, there is plenty of shit that's going to break immersion, and you can't handle fox-people of all things? It's one thing if they're breaking rules - please, please report them if they seem to be meta-communicating or self-antagging in any way, we will crack down on that just as if they were anyone else breaking the rules - but don't act like a shit towards them and expect them to do anything but respond in kind.

 

One of the most common themes I see when people complain about "furries" is that they form cliques. For starters, everyone's going to build up a group of friends. For Vulps and Taj it's very obvious that these people share common interests and so it's easier for them to make friends, but that doesn't mean they won't make friends with other species too. My first character on this server was Human and I had no trouble at all making friends with several Vulpkanin and Tajaran players. I can only assume it's because when I see someone playing either of those species I don't automatically assume they're somehow worth less just because of the species they picked, and so I treated them just like I would treat anyone else. I have never seen any real cliques in this game and never been attacked, or even ignored when approaching groups of Vulpkanin. Even now, when I'm playing a Vox or a Skrell I still don't see Vulp players as being hostile, or really any different from any other players.

 

You know what I think when I see a post on /r/SS13 about someone getting attacked by a "furry"? I believe they're leaving out the part of the story where they initiated the confrontation by calling the other person "furfag" and other insults, following them around and shoving them, tabling them, putting them in the disposals. People like this reinforce their beliefs because they treat other people negatively and then, when the other person reacts in a negative way, they point and shout, "SEE? SEE? I WAS RIGHT!" It's one of those ugly truths about human perception, that people are willing to overlook their own poor behavior while calling out the poor behavior of others.

 

If you have a problem with "furry" players I would recommend you try treating them like a person for once and see how it works out. You might be surprised.

 

There's definitely furry baiting, but in terms of social skills and tendency to be shrieking harpies in a community on the same level as weebos and pre-teens, of which ss13 also has many of. Difference being that it is often easier to spot a furry, and they tend to have a tighter knit furry community and flock to areas that cater to them, often unintentionally by simply allowing anthropomorphic animals as a lazy way to portray alien species. There's a stereotype, and while it's not fair it's also often accurate. There's a high correlation on the internet with furries and tumblr in the form of nounkin which brings an extra type of undesirable flavor. The ridiculous comparison I think is being made as a subtext is anti-furry sentiment as racism or being homophobic.

 

I don't have an issue with furries specifically in the same way I don't have an issue with lesbians. But I don't want or need to know who you are sexually attracted to while playing a 2d farting spessman simulator, and Vulp in particular are a huge magnet for furry fetishists while providing nothing unique in lore or mechanics and being overpowered. /That/ is why paradise has a reputation as a furry server, and /that/ is why there's so many more vulps than tajs despite them being reskins.

 

I want paradise to be better, and I think a big issue is the level of denial it appears both community and staff are in when discussing some things that appear obvious from the outside. Dumbed down mechanics, vulps/furries, ban-happy policies are something that is discussed when paradise is brought up on other servers. It looks like you're working on the third part, but staff members don't seem to understand why people keep bringing up the first two. The reason I've posted these novels is to try you guys to understand it.

 

[Grey telepathy]

Greys have needed a boost to their telepathy for a long time. Currently they're outclassed by their PDA.

[It's about time we had a serious talk...]

 

-snip- and that is what the ss13 community sees.

 

Again you mean r/ss13. You can say r/ss13 is a part or fraction of SS13 but to say it IS the SS13 community is flat wrong.

It's a fractured base. Paradise, Bay, Yogg, Goon etcetera. And do you REALLY want r/ss13 to represent SS13?

There is absolutely no reason that we need to have human clones as racial choices. Offering more choices doesn't mean you can't give them interesting mechanics, but mechanically unanthi and tajvulps are just humans in similar looking costumes.

 

As was mentioned before there ARE perfectly good reasons for even just a reskin, Aesthetics. How can you say this reason is invalid?

Vulps not being fox's baby is a lie. Someone else might've suggested it, but the coding done was minimal but he made the art. It was not a popular addition nor was allowing neon fur due to adding nothing new and being snowflake bait.

 

Show, don't tell. Just because shill is repeated doesn't mean it's true.

It was voted to stay so therefore it was 'popular'.

As for the snowflake thing, well, humans do it all the time, it's in our nature and when given the option to customize WE BLOODY DO IT.

Piercings, hair color, tattoos, CLOTHES. People will always 'snowflake'.

 

Though I do agree that for non-skrell and non-slimes neon colors should be banned with exception of hair.

In the end though it makes as much a difference as someone having red or blonde hair or any color.

It's an optional choice and not against server rules, why does it upset you so? Just don't look at them.

 

It's not just /r/ss13. It's the ss13 community in general that feels strongly about furry-oriented content, Fox, and vulps. Tons of servers restrict non-humans as heads, and on some cats and lizards are valid to kill at all times. The community in general also thinks paradise is worse than it used to be.

 

I have an extremely difficult time taking you seriously, because you play your fursona on paradise. At it's heart, ss13 is a roleplaying game. You're not roleplaying here, because it's just you in a fox suit. When people are playing themselves, or mary-sueing up a storm, there's gonna be more drama because you're irrationally emotionally invested.

 

As far as why we shouldn't have human reskins, it's because it's just worthless feature bloat. If you take the time to create unique art and lore for a species and they function exactly like humans, it's wasted effort because there's nothing meaningful there. In theory, unique roleplay could bridge that gap but we already established that you're not roleplaying and thus are part of the problem. There are a ton of people who just play their fursona which is just as shitty roleplay as people playing a human with their own name and personality. Granted, the latter has less fetish connotations, but it's a close enough comparison.

 

If you really care about having your fur/scale suits, make them actually play differently or stop pretending it's anything but catering to a fetish.

 

There's a difference between being an inclusive server that doesn't discriminate, and a server that specifically caters to a minority of their players. Paradise has crossed the line into the latter, and it's sad to see.

 

People seem to have a dislike for balance these days, but I remember the times two years ago when races were "unique". It sure was fun chasing down the endless stream of shitler slimes that vent crawled through the station naked cutting themselves. And oh boy, it's certainly very balanced for Vox to leap around the station. Balance may take away some of the "fun", but it is necessary to give every player (including humans) a fun time.

 

You're 100% presenting a false equivalency. Vox, IPC, diona are all unique in roleplay and mechanics. They all have significant strengths and weaknesses that change the way they play. It's not easy to make races unique, balanced, and interesting, but it's also not that hard.

 

Human, Skrell, Taj, Vulp, Unanthi, and Kidan only have a handful of lines of code other than naming changes separating them. Granted, mammalian races are a bad idea because you can't do much with them but for an amphibian, reptilian, and an insectoid race you have thousands of species to draw from for inspiration many of which have bizarre physiology. People have made suggestion threads to improve this, and they fell on deaf ears.

 

Edit: Because I've talked way too much about lazy species code, Why is the Tesla engine not removed, and why do you have baby's first atmos now? Ss13 is a disaster simulator, and you've dumbed down the avenues of disaster significantly with a braindead easy engine and significantly less dangerous atmos.

 

[It's about time we had a serious talk...]

 

I appreciate the responses the various staff members have given, and wanted to address some things you took offense to.

 

First, when I say that paradise is a casual hugbox, that is because it is and that is a big reason the server is popular.

 

Every popular server (and para is definitely popular) has some sort of niche it fills. Paradise has never had the most developed codebase, it doesn't cater to pvp, and it doesn't have uniqie mechanics other than the karma system.

 

It is the lowest common denominator server that has things in common with practically every other server but no one else is blending them like you do here. I don't think you should change this, but also be realistic about it being a casual server that doesn't require robustness. I'd still start a new player here.

 

I don't give a shit about whether someone is a furry or into bondage, but I don't want people to be dressed up in bondage gear either, and when a quarter of the server is in leather biker gear and the another quarter are in leather bondage gear I don't know or care about the difference, I just see a bunch of people oversharing.

 

There are characters that don't speak racial languages over the radio, don't hang with groups of similar races instead of doing their job, and don't play their fursona. But the ones that do are obvious and that is what the ss13 community sees.

 

There is absolutely no reason that we need to have human clones as racial choices. Offering more choices doesn't mean you can't give them interesting mechanics, but mechanically unanthi and tajvulps are just humans in similar looking costumes.

 

Vulps not being fox's baby is a lie. Someone else might've suggested it, but the coding done was minimal but he made the art. It was not a popular addition nor was allowing neon fur due to adding nothing new and being snowflake bait.

 

How many months have gone by with kidan having a 20% (worthless) brute reduction since vulps can toggle wagging tails? Why are greys still terrible and with useless telepathy? Things are neglected.

 

[It's about time we had a serious talk...]

 

I'm in a bit of a unique position because I can tell you first-hand why I left. I poked my head in because of the reddit thread, and I was curious to see if there'd be any actual discussion. The answer was "sort of, but not addressing the concerns in the reddit thread."

 

When I first started playing on Para, it was a med-RP fairly gentle server with high pop and where I could get my bearings. From there I tried out other servers, and occasionally came back, less and less satisfied with the direction it was going.

 

For one, Med-RP became Low-RP. When a random player drags their friend into the surgery room and starts doing surgery on them in front of an actual ready surgeon, that's a problem. When I ahelped about it, I was told it wasn't a problem. Guess it wasn't, as the rules changed shortly thereafter.

 

Also, Yuki Frost to me is permanently intertwined with paradise, as a reeking example of the annoying furries that are not only tolerated but welcomed. The entire ss13 community knows that Vulps are Fox's baby and it's embarrassing because they add absolutely nothing to the server.

 

I'd still use paradise as a way to introduce new players to the game, simply because it is a hugbox with a furry cautionary tale built in.

 

Racial balance is terrible with many races being identical or near-identical to humans mechanically (Skrell) or just straight up terrible (grey). Probably half the races are acceptable (Human, IPC, Vox, Diona, Slime) as they have different gameplay mechanics that are interesting and actually change the way you play. IPC is by far the best designed from a player perspective, though a nightmare to code. Vox are RP'd well the vast majority of the time and are interesting to play as and with. Some have some interesting things going for them but are mostly just weaker (Kidan, Grey). The rest have no real reason to have been added, as they are essentially just human reskins. (Vulp, Taj, Unanthi, Skrell).

 

You had a fun, inclusive server that from the outside appears to have been taken over by and cater to non-erping furries with longstanding design flaws left unfixed in a codebase that otherwise has a lot of nice features. I can best sum up my feelings at the prospect of playing here as "meh".

 

[Should roleplay really take a backseat?]

 

I personally think OP comes from a very different, casual style of game and seems to be missing the fundamental nature of ss13 as a disaster simulator, not a 2D second life.

 

First comes competence, then roleplay, then the ability to do wacky shenanigans. If someone is not competent as a chemist and we don't have mutadone 40 minutes into the round (and 10 min after I ask for it) the only RP we're gonna have is me yelling at you to pull your shit together and threatening a demotion to assistant.

 

[Best way to set up a drask cold room?]

 

So as I'm saving up the karma for drask, I'm wondering what the most efficient way to make a persistently cold room for drask to heal in. I assume the parts will be difficult to get ahold of unless I play atmos, which is fine.

 

Obviously things like space access for heat exchange pipes affect things but ideally I'd want something compact, as having a freezer in the cold area is actually ideal to reduce tampering.

 

["Junior" professions as assistant types.]

 

Can we please not descend to hostility as the first response to an idea we disagree with? Let's stay on track, please.

 

Sure. We already have dimunitive titles in many departments and mecha pilot would be a really bad idea.

 

Above and beyond that we have the HoP who can provide any title and access, and the start of the round they're typically available to do so.

 

So the response to OP's suggestion is that it's already in for medical (nurse) and engineering (maint tech), and for science learning from coworkers should be easy due to the departmental structure.

 

Nothing more is needed.

Whats bad in security cadet/deputy early availble for new players and which have reduced/no access initialy? Security have no junior version at all and potentially earlier availible brig physician a ment to be non-combatant kept out of actual crimefighting.

And some Head of personal are just "no fun allowed" type.

 

Security already has pretty limited access to begin with. Not sure the advantage of reducing it further. Sec officer is already a pretty low title and equivalent or worse in trust than a nurse anyway.

 

I think that even if you want to the HoP and asked a "no fun" one for a title adjustment to reflect you being in training they would. Someone who doesn't have the social skills for that shouldn't be a sec officer to begin with.

 

[Perma Jenkem making]

 

 

Would it really be that hard to look it up before you spout nonsense? Takes like 10 seconds to look up the recipe for space lube.

 

It takes 0 seconds to not post a nonconstructive comment and move along.

 

I point it out because the guy consistently starts with an incorrect assumption that wouldn't happen with a tiny bit of effort.

 

Even for a thread about making fake (Jenkem is a hoax) drugs in permabrig, we can have standards.

 

My opinion on it is that I'm not worried about what shenanigans people get into in perma, as I don't get arrested or play sec. The concept is pretty stupid, but for 2d spessman is fine, if we want to take a step towards goon tone.

 

[Perma Jenkem making]

 

I dunno about giving inmates their own garden in perma, it would feel out of place.. And could also be abused somehow, I just know it.. I'm not experienced with botany, but I just feel someone will find a way to abuse it.

 

Also, as a reminder, isn't ammonia and water put together turn into space lube? I don't think allowing people easier access to the stuff a good idea. That, and chemist might abuse it too for shortcuts, which IC wise is not fitting of their job. Scraping fungus off walls is one thing, but running around the station gathering ammonia from toilets isn't really appropriate.

 

I think what would be better is if they rework the recipe for Jenk, making it easier to put together without having to rely on charming the chemist to give you the needed ingredients to make the cheap drug. But what could you find in a prison cell? Hmm...

 

Would it really be that hard to look it up before you spout nonsense? Takes like 10 seconds to look up the recipe for space lube.

 

[The Mirrored Man - Evil Incarnate]

 

This is honestly fantastic

 

OP writes up this whole long and overly self-complimentary post, and then is /permabanned/ anyway.

 

 

Hahahahaha

 

[The Mirrored Man - Evil Incarnate]

 

Dude, there's absolutely no hatred here. I just think your witcher fanwank is silly, and the sort of navel-gazing RP you're looking for is ill-suited to this sort of server.

 

Hatred requires caring, and I don't care enough to finish th

 

[The Mirrored Man - Evil Incarnate]

 

I do not only play head of staff, I use to play command roles a lot long time ago - but once again that was a long time ago. I stopped playing for a while and I don't appreciate your insulting me Toroic, narcissism does not make you stronger - it makes you weak. Whoever the hell you are, you better get over your obsession with me - because I've not intention of dealing with your drama and don't want you to be stepping around like a damn shadow whenever I do something. It looks like your only issue is me, but that looks to be more personal than anything - so you shouldn't further comment on this thread.

 

#Tip: Bullet points are not an advised method on forums and it is also advised that you try not to change your mind mid argument about an idea, it shows a lack of control over your thoughts.

 

This might be the funniest thing I've read all day.

 

Let's bust out the good old bullet points for this.

 

-My narcissism has nothing to do with it being a bad idea to give your semi-admin powers for your snowflakey concept.

 

-It took very little time to look at your post history to confirm a bad first impression of you.

 

-There's no need to worry about me becoming a stalker, random dude. You can sleep easy... or can you? 2spooky

 

-Bullet points are legit

 

 

More, or perhaps most importantly, I don't see why you think even if this sort of event was run, why you would be a good choice for it over one of our admins. Nor have you really provided sufficient argument.

 

This really seems like the sort of missions it could provide could be largely replicated by custom traitor objectives, and generally mixes too much fantasy into my 2D spaceman fart simulator.

 

Imagine you're deep in your power fantasy, Gunther O'Day, and whispering sweet nothings to convince a mild mannered vulp who totally is like, the fluffiest but also has a steely glint in her eye that speaks to a past of deep regret... and a clown comes up, slips her, farts, and runs off.

 

Actually that sounds pretty amazing. Admins, please add Gertrude O'Bay immediately.

 

[The Mirrored Man - Evil Incarnate]

 

I find the event idea interesting, but am strongly against you playing this role.

 

1) It is snowflakey as fuck

 

2) You /only/ play head of staff

 

3) You have had multiple bans with long winded whining in every single one.

 

4) There's no reason this couldn't be done better by an admin.

 

[IPCs are not balanced]

 

Is anyone going to actually address the argument how the magnitude of their strengths and weaknesses wildly differ depending on their role?

 

Because that's what this was supposed to be about.

 

It's almost like they're an interesting and unique race with situational advantages and disadvantages.

 

Now, I'm not going to claim this was a shitpost by you, because you're serious about it.

 

But your fundamental assumption (That being strong in some areas and weak in others is bad) is flawed and all the overwrought reasoning you've applied on top inherits this flaw.