block1 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) :!: Other thread is being removed at my request. I only want to focus on spiders since they have a lot more mechanics behind them. :!: Spiders are no longer playable and can only be computer-controlled (npc). For a long, long while spiders have always been playable but due to the recent amount of players using the spider to grief they've been disabled indefinitely. I feel as if this decision is extremely un-fair to the rest of the playerbase that enjoyed being able to be a spider or fight against them. They had a large amount of work, scripting and mechanics behind them that made playing them a newish experience. My primary suggestion is to re-enable spiders and put some restrictions on them such as white-listing them and putting a cooldown on how long it'll take before you can respawn again as a spider. Option A Whitelisting. Whitelisting is the process of having to apply to be allowed to play a certain role, creature, etc. It's extremely easy to enable a white-list however it will take the effort of the mentors, admins and above to review whitelist applications to play as this certain role and either approve it or decline it. This method is the most optimal and guarantees little to no grief however as I said it will require a sub-forum to apply, mentors and admins actively reviewing the applications and someone with basic knowledge to add a players ckey to the whitelist. Option B Cooldowns. This method will also reduce the amount of grief but not completely eliminate it. If you die as a spider you won't be able to respawn again for 2-3 minutes. This'll prevent the greytide from simply respawning as a spider the second they die, grief, die, repeat. And it'll allow admins some time to see what the particular player did so they can easily punish them if they used the creature to intentionally grief or break the rules. Option C Karma purchase. This method reduces the amount of griefing and metagrudging. Make spiders playable for 10 - 20 karma points. This'll prevent greytide from abusing the role. The Argument The common argument for re-enabling spiders is that spiders serve no other purpose other than running around and killing everything. This is simply untrue and I will explain why. Of course like many antagonists the straightforward answer is "Kill crew, kill crew and kill crew." But you should also take into consideration that Spiders (like xenos, blobs or any other role that is an alien.) had a lot of mechanics behind them that allowed for every encounter with them to be different, especially depending on what class of spider you came in contact with. Take the large spider for example ( guard spider) they had an average amount of health, a semi-large brute force attack and a very slow movement speed. Encountering a guard spider would require the player to constantly hit and move back until the spider either died or retreated. The hunter spider (the smaller one with purple eyes. ) had a very low amount of health, an average brute force attack with the addition of a toxin attack that applied passively and a fast movement speed. This required the spider to hide and ambush, much like an assassin. If the particular spider were to simply run into the halls it would be killed almost instantly. and the nurse spider (the fat one with green eyes. ) had a low amount of health, a semi-average amount of brute force attack and a sluggish movement speed, nurses had the ability to lay eggs after they absorbed a downed crewmember. The point being that all three of these spiders had unique playstyles and required some thinking and strategizing to emerge victorious. If you simply did the ol' run-and-gun you would almost certainly be defeated. So please spare me the straightforward and dull answer of "All they do is kill, nothing special about them!" Balancing Spiders are already very balanced creatures, all three of the classes have their own strengths and weaknesses and can easily be defeated. However the common complaint that is said is that they reproduce too quickly. Therefore I propose this, Egg-sacs hatch less spiderlings (2-4), spiderlings take 2-3 minutes before they evolve into a giant spider and the time it takes for a nurse spider to lay an egg-sac is increased from instant to 20-30 seconds. Although this isn't needed it should ease the players concerns that spiders reproduce too quickly. NPC vs Player Control This is a pretty obvious and straightforward topic, NPC-controlled spiders make the event much more boring and much more difficult to kill. Let's look at the pros and cons NPCs are well.. stupid. They were scripted purely to stay in one spot, spin the occasional web and chase a player down with no errors or mistakes until said player was dead. With a human controlling the spider it makes things much more interesting, people aren't robots so we make mistakes. Giving our enemy an advantage over us. Sometimes we'll mis-click and we definitely can't run at the speed of light behind our foes unlike NPCs. So with spiders being 100% NPC-controlled well.. it makes things extremely boring. The argument that the spiders existence is purely to kill applies perfectly to NPC-controlled spiders. as they can only chase and kill. With players it introduces teamwork, coordination and strategizing. It allows spiders to web up an area, making the place look much more spidery and expand their domain to the next room. It makes the roleplay experience much more in-depth, if you're walking into a room and everything is covered in webs well.. your character definitely knows something isn't right. Player-controlled spiders have the intelligence to break out a light and hide, the intelligence to expand and build up a spider headquarters for players to drag the incapacitated crew to absorb and lay eggs on and the intelligence to use their surroundings to hide and ambush. It brings much more flavor to the round since you know you're up against another player rather than a bland and without error npc. Conclusion To conclude, disabling player-controlled spiders was a bad call in my opinion. It took away a lot of fun and diversity for spider rounds and made the event ten-times more boring and bland. The crew knew that spiders would be easily killed since npcs possess no intelligence and that the result would always be the same just in a different room. Player-controlled spiders put much more uniqueness and excitement into the round. So please consider looking at some options to re-enable spiders to the playerbase and also consider the amount of work both the coders and players put into making the spider a unique creature. (Wiki article, lore, scripting to allow the spinning of webs, absorbing of players, webifying of furniture and players, the different stats between spiders and the work that also went into spiderlings as well such as being capable of fleeing, hiding and traveling through vents.) If you have any questions feel free to post away, I'll do my best to answer them since I'm an expert on spiderology. :ugeek: Edited February 19, 2015 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Still disagree for the reason I enumerated in the other thread in addition to what Streaky said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
block1 Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Well than you obviously didn't read anything I wrote. What you and streaky said was directly responded to in both argument and both options to reduce both meta-grudges and griefing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox McCloud Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Well than you obviously didn't read anything I wrote. What you and streaky said was directly responded to in both argument and both options to reduce both meta-grudges and griefing. Sorry, but your post doesn't really outline anything to alleviate my concerns over metagrudging, griefing, etc. It just reduces it a bit. Likewise, I don't see how you addressed Streaky's concerns over whitelisting either; it still has to be coded and it still requires the administrative oversight of selecting candidates....for a single...antag species (that was never really designed to be played by regular players to begin with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
block1 Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Well than you obviously didn't read anything I wrote. What you and streaky said was directly responded to in both argument and both options to reduce both meta-grudges and griefing. Sorry, but your post doesn't really outline anything to alleviate my concerns over metagrudging, griefing, etc. It just reduces it a bit. Likewise, I don't see how you addressed Streaky's concerns over whitelisting either; it still has to be coded and it still requires the administrative oversight of selecting candidates....for a single...antag species (that was never really designed to be played by regular players to begin with). I mean realistically it's impossible to stop people from griefing or metagrudging completely but a whitelist will certainly reduce the amount. As for Streaky's concerns, yes it will be some effort for a single antag species but well.. disabling a species for an entire playerbase that's one of the most popular servers on this game is a big, big decision. Especially since Paradise was the only server to allow players to be spiders. Other popular servers such as yog, hippie, tg and aurora to my knowledge also have it disabled. So that's another unfortunate factor since this playable species is pretty much extinct now from every popular server. Option B could work much better with a lot less work from the admins, simply adding anywhere from a 2 - 5 minute cooldown on respawning again as a spider. This'll reduce the amount of grief since if you die well.. you have to wait five minutes now. And if a coder cares enough about the event they could also modify the amount of time it takes for an egg sac to hatch and the amount of spiderlings that come out of said sac to reduce the amount of spiders on the station. I understand you disagree but at least give it some consideration, it was a fun and balanced event that is now gone from one of the most popular servers. *Added a third option, might fit your tastes a little better. No admin effort needed and will significantly reduce grief as only regulars will have the kind of karma to purchase it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
block1 Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Should also mention that I could possibly try coding a placeholder in for the karma shop option, but I'd rather wait for an admins call on whether to do that or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
block1 Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Bumperino for visibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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