DesuEx
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Posts posted by DesuEx
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20 hours ago, TheClosetMailman said:
I was nothing how all crew get AA and guns the moment anything remotely red gets spotted
Okay... and? With potential syndicates hidden amongst the crew, command is going to be more hesitant to hand them out to the crew.
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6 minutes ago, TheClosetMailman said:
Of which all are armed with the guns and all access that was handed out like candy the moment one of the nukies as much as sneezed.
If this is done automatically though, then command is less likely to hand out all access and weapons.
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1 hour ago, tzo said:
Of all the ideas I've heard to make war ops a fairer fight, perhaps the one I like best is: upon declaration of war, turn 1-3 crew into traitors with objectives to assassinate different members of Command. This way, we're discouraging the HoP/Cap from giving everyone guns and all-access, without outright prohibiting it. We're also evening the balance in the number of players on each side, a little, and ensuring that the crew doesn't have 20 minutes' hassle-free prep time. Rather than outright prohibiting anything or making it impossible, we're introducing some disincentives that curb the most problematic behavior on the crew side, and even up the fight, without making anything totally impossible.
Oooh, that's a great idea! Way to think outside the box whoever suggested this. This would definitely raise the tension and reduce the problem of repetitiveness.
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10 hours ago, Tayswift said:
I've seen nukies with more than 8000 hours of play time among them combined win a round in less than 30 minutes, but when we don't have any stats on the nukies teams and how often they win or lose I don't want to comment on the "balance". It seems like nukies already enjoy the challenge of declaring war. If they like the challenge, then I don't see what's wrong with it. They already get extra TC when there's more crew. If it's fun, why stress too much about balance? This isn't a competitive game and we're never going to achieve perfect balance unless we implement matchmaking.
There are probably a few things we can do to make it easier for new nukies though. There's a lot of gotchas involved, like not using magboots properly or putting the jetpack in the wrong slot. Plenty of times even for stealth nukies someone doesn't figure out how to use the jetpack and blows the nukies' cover. We should think about the UI and UX of these items that many players may not be familiar with. Sometimes it just comes down to being plain unrobust (eg me).
What we can also do is make the round more interesting if it's too boring due to lack of conflict. Reinforcements sounds like a good idea for this.
You seem to have misunderstood me.This isn't so much about competitive Balance so much as it is making the rounds less repetitive. To me at least, it's not fun when every round basically ends up going exactly the same way. There's no challenge and drama when I don't feel that the nuke ops can win. It isn't that I find playing a nuke op during war not fun, it's that I find playing a crew member during it boring.
6 hours ago, davidchan said:Nukes winning or losing pretty is determined before they leave their hangar. If all nukes are working together, formulating a plan and gearing up in a way to synergize, they'll dominate. If everyone just buys what ever toy they wanted to use and equip to solo or cause mass chaos with little to no care if anyone grabs the disk or nuke, nukes fail. Veteran ops who like winning know the best way to do that is to work closely with others who know what they are doing and try to minimize the screw ups rookies will do. Problem is most rookies don't read the chat window and spend the entire prep time browsing the uplink then walk out the air lock with their suit in combat mode or their internals off and die of exposure.
In the long run the actions of the crew are pretty much irrelevant. If the ops are working together and being smart, no amount of preparation by the crew will help them since the nukes always know the general direction of the disk. If the nukes are solo ramboing then the crew will pick them off one by one till the shuttle arrives. The solution isn't to make it harder or less time for the crew to coordinate and resist, but better emphasize to the nukes they need to work together and not act like agents carrying out personal goals and vendettas.
Its one of the many reasons I've been pushing for months for VR consoles to get ported and one of the minigames being a nuke mode so people can get a chance to use nuke gear. Nuke is a role that I feel everyone should get a chance at playing sooner or later, but the occurrence of getting it is rare enough that throwing people in blind isn't really fun or fair.
That's something I both agree and disagree with. Yes, inexperienced nuke ops do frequently buy what they think will be the most fun for their own experience thus shooting themselves in the foot and yes, experienced players do coordinate and know how to work their TC to their advantage. However I wish to voice the following rebuttals;
- I feel you've vastly oversimplified it and underestimated just how effective a good crew can be. They have access to a bunch of effective equipment, and with a much larger pool than the nuke ops it's more likely that the robust ones end up supporting the station. Which brings me to...
- How often do we see a properly robust nuke ops team? With how big the rounds usually are, it's highly unlikely that we'll get just one guy on the team, and they probably won't end up as the leader (the guy that ultimately makes the call). Even then, it's a bit of a false dichotomy to assume that either you have a horribly incompetent team or a really robust one. Even those that have good experience and skill often fail at this round type due to all the advantages the crew has. Of course one must also consider...
- Experienced players might actually be less likely to declare war rounds. From what I've seen, the ones that know what they're doing are the ones pushing at the beginning of the round to not declare war.
Although I do think you are onto something with the VR solution. If it can help raise the tension without actually changing the mechanics much, so much the better.
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I'd seriously have to ask what rounds you experience, since as I've said I've only seen it happen once. Again, only one sample to speak of but 60/40 is way too generous from my experience, and I play very frequently. I'm not opposed to it being harder than going stealth ops, I'm just asking that we give the nukies a good chance at succeeding rather than just having the Crew overwhelm them pretty much every time.
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War rounds, taking the idea that the players of a Nuke Ops team will likely want to go full pink Mohawk loud with guns blazing, and building the game around it. The idea is great, and should provide us with some of the most colorful and intense rounds possible. So... why is it that whenever I hear those sirens, I find myself sighing with dismissal? The answer I feel is two-fold: Very rarely have I seen the Syndicate ever score a victory, in fact in the past 6 months alone (As far back as I can really remember vividly in terms of trends) I've only seen one Syndicate victory, and I distinctly remember the command staff being incredibly incompetent, so that seems to be a fluke. Now of course I don't play all the time, and I'd bet I miss more rounds than I play, so perhaps the ratio isn't quite as bad as my personal experience is. But it's still a pretty statistic from the sample size. The second reason is tied directly to the first, namely that the rounds end up being too repetitive. Some players have defended War rounds claiming that they're fun. Far be it for me to tell you that you shouldn't find it fun when I don't, experiences are quite subjective. But I don't find it fun when the rounds end up being so samey that I can easily sum each one up as bluntly as: "Syndicates declare war. The Crew hands out all access like candy and order guns. The Syndies get killed. The crew escapes. Rinse, lather, repeat."
So why do these problems exist? Well, as stated earlier, with the advance warning and delay, the crew end up way too well armed for the extra telecrystals to compensate. Advanced Hardsuits and .50 Caliber rifles don't really help much against an entire crew armed with assault rifles and bulletproof armor. And that's not even getting into the other possibilities a good crew can bring to the table (Mobile Suit Squadrons anyone?). It's not that it's impossible for the syndicates to achieve victory, since I've seen it happen once it can clearly be done, but the deck is too heavily stacked against them.
Now, with all this in mind, here are some suggestions I have to fix the round, and maybe make the rounds exciting and fun again. Note that these are just suggestions, and not all of them may be necessary when put together. The last thing we'd want is for the ratio to be too far in the other direction. But these may help rebalance it to something more fun and less repetitive. Feel free to chime in with suggestions of your own.
- Shorten the deployment delay. (This one's obvious, if the Syndies arrive sooner, then the crew has less time to get everything ready. Shouldn't be too short obviously, but I think just knocking off a few minutes will really give the syndies a better chance).
- Delay the cargo shuttle in the beginning of the round. (A major reason the crew usually wins is because they can just order loads of autorifles and basically arm everyone. This would reduce the amount handed out and possibly force the crew to get more creative with their defenses. )
- Raise the cost of ordering weapons and armor. (Same justification as the previous one, but different enough to warrant a separate entry. This can of course be rectified a lot by just mass mining plasma or sending research disks. Maybe do both if one proves insufficient)
- Reinforcements for the syndicates. (Basically when they're all dead, a second wave of them randomly drawn from dead players can be sent in, thus reducing the advantage in numbers. Of course it might be a bit too extreme, so I'd suggest giving them fewer TC to work with)
- More TC (Also obvious, but I feel this one could either end up not being enough since it doesn't nullify the advantages of numbers. Of course with too much they all end up with mech suits and enough personal ordnance to blow up the station manually. )
- Making handing out all access illegal/against SOP. (More subtle than the others, but it might go a long way. The crew still outnumber the syndies by a huge amount and can do other things besides gear up. People might just ignore this though.)
Anyways, that's all I can think of right now. Maybe I'll add to it later if others come to mind. Of course if some other more subtle solution can be found that fixes things, so much the better.
Fixing War Rounds. Some suggestions.
in Suggestions
Posted
Further justification for just spawning them automatically rather than making them a purchasable option.