[Admin complaint: Meow19]

Admin(s) Key: meow19
Your ckey (Byond username): Auce
Your Discord name (if applicable): Auce

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): oct 6 ~11:50 am

ROUND ID: ?

Nature of complaint: Feedback
(Select all that apply: EG - clarification required, misapplication of rules, misconduct, abuse of powers, feedback, other)
Links to all relevant ban appeals for any bans related to this complaint: N/a

Brief description (tl;dr here. Just the critical elements): Given admin note, no interest in RP gimmick

Full description of events: On cult round, was a clown who decided to create a cult museum full of stolen/abandoned cult artifacts. Was wandering maints checking for hidden doors to find more pieces to add to my locker. Admin summarily bwoinked and told me I was either getting noted or banned depending on if i left the maints immediately. I told them my gimmick and they had no interest, insisted I was validhunting or intentionally trying to get converted. Just trying to do clown things and getting punished is a pretty huge feel bad.

[Admin Complaint: Unknown]

This was the round in question (time is in EST)

[Admin Complaint: Unknown]

Admin(s) Key: Unknown
Your ckey (Byond username): Auce
Your Discord name (if applicable): Auce

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): Approx 0500 GMT on September 12th

ROUND ID: unknown

Nature of complaint: abuse of powers
(Select all that apply: EG - clarification required, misapplication of rules, misconduct, abuse of powers, feedback, other)
Links to all relevant ban appeals for any bans related to this complaint:

Brief description (tl;dr here. Just the critical elements): Admin shuttlegrief, spawned about a dozen honk mechs and several spiders on the escape shuttle before round end.

Full description of events: Not much other context, was told to post here by Meow19 and AffectedWolf07. Disappointed this kind of thing happens.

[Add chem dispenser to botany at roundstart]

How is this a buff to botany? They get access to a chem dispenser every single round, it just creates annoying work for science and makes botanists upset when they don't have their mutagen immediately.

Also anyone saying botany is possible without a chem dispenser, I thoroughly challenge you to have the patience to do it without one. Try mutating ambrosia gaia with left4zed, yeesh.

[Add chem dispenser to botany at roundstart]

It is kind of silly that step 1 of doing botany every single round is to go bug R&D for a chem dispenser, can we save everyone a bunch of busy work and just have one spawn there?

[Security Objective/Focus]

Agreed, I think fines would be a good addition to the game, as long as the credit economy has more of an impact on the game.

[Security Objective/Focus]

Honestly I feel like everyone in this thread has vastly different anecdotal experiences on this server and while that's not surprising to me, I feel like just because I have one experience that doesn't make yours invalid, and likewise in return. 

"I don't exactly understand what your suggestion is really, try to be more specific and put at least some time into thinking and coming up with an actualy suggestion on how to fix problems that you think exist, not some abstarct "i would like to see a system"." In my original post I suggested that security be given goals/objectives like the science crewmen are on the end game screen, where they are given recognition for doing their jobs properly. One way of doing this is tracking how many minutes of temp-brig time they issued to crew (and perhaps to antags), and be given points for releasing non-antags and capturing/removing the threat of an actual antagonist. Perhaps security could have some sort of high tech option that could rehabilitate/defang an otherwise must-execute antagonist and allow them to continue the round instead of just being killed. This already sort of exists as borging, but I don't think this is an ideal solution for many players.

[Security Objective/Focus]

Mitchs98, my proposal is an "ought" one, not an "is" one. I'm saying I think the existing rules should change.

" I have to say the majority of times that harsh sentences are used are against shitters, self antagging players, people that decided to commit a lot of crime, or antags" I don't think security should be dealing with self antagging players, that's against server rules and should be ahelped right? I'm talking about people who are doing very minor crimes/SoP slipups and are brought in to talk, or people who are innocent/framed and brought in.

"Security does RP with people with a warrant a lot more than people let on when possible or applicable, especially non-antags. The fact of the matter is the majority of people with warrants, especially non-antags, are just people griefing or otherwise doing really tidey or LRP actions that bring the round down." In my ~400 hours of experience now on the server I'd say that the majority of experience roleplaying with a sec officers consists of batong, cuff, processing and then stripping naked (or you doing the same to them if you are robust/feel like gaming). 

 "Security shouldn't be trying to not arrest people who deserve it, that's entirely counter-intuitive to what Space Law is for; keeping people who otherwise negatively impact the round in a cell. Now, I will say that security should issue warnings more often for certain crimes...but err on the side of not arrest/be afraid to arrest people in fear of some sort of punishment for doing their job? Absolutely not. " I think from a gameplay perspective, security should not want to arrest innocent people, and not want to cost the station productivity. I am fine with there being a warrant out on someone for a legitimate reason with evidence, and for force to be used if the perp resists, but there's a reason in real life police officers don't just run up and attack people with tasers/batons without giving them verbal warnings. If the suspect flees or resists obviously they lose this measure of protection.

"Statistically speaking, and this is from my own personal experience in security and not a dataset, at least ninety percent of arrests on non-antags are people griefing and toeing the line on self antagging; not true petty criminals committing crime in an RP fashion or trying to do something interesting for the round. "

The griefers and self-antaggers should be dealt with via ahelp, but I think part of the reason that there aren't many petty criminals is because the culture of this server. The vast majority of criminal stuff is against server rules for non-antags, barring ahelp permission. In addition, I've on more than one occasion seen admins literally play security for them, adminfreezing and bwoinking someone doing something IC illegal but not against server rules. This sort of thing really takes the steam out of the round for both the security people who have nothing to do besides hunt for redtext, and for players with gimmicks or IC grudges/petty feuds with other characters who are unable to play them out for fear of bwoink.

"you say like executing for no reason is a common occurrence..."

Procdrone, I don't understand how you got this notion from my post. I don't believe that people being executed arbitrarily is a common occurance, just that security has every incentive and no disincentive to end an antag's round with perma and/or execution.

[Security Objective/Focus]

One common theme I have noticed in many of my rounds is that many security players view the round as "Security vs (All the potential criminals and antags)" instead of "Crew (including security) trying to get their jobs done, hindered by antags".

This leads to situations where if you are arrested or brought in to the brig, security will often err on the side of caution and give you a harsher sentence, or even perma/execute you even if evidence is circumstantial. I think this is bad for both innocent/mild criminals and for antags because the officers should really not want to brig/execute people unless they have to. Innocents and mild criminals can have their round ended wrongly, and IMO security officers shouldn't actively want to ruin anyone's round, even if they are an antag. I personally try to go out of my way not to ruin anyone's round, even if I am forced to assassinate them I will try to involve them in the round otherwise if I can. 

I'd like to see some sort of system where the security team is held accountable to the station's productivity points, and officers more encouraged not to err on the side of round-ending other players. In addition I'd really like to see security's SoP modified such that they aren't expected/allowed to just baton+cuff anyone even suspected of crime. People should be allowed to come to the brig willingly, even if only to have a chance at getting a reduced sentence for cooperating. I almost never see security roleplay with someone who has a warrant on them, regardless of alert level. In my experience it is disabler/baton + cuff and drag wordlessly to processing. I don't think this is a fun interaction for anyone, as it encourages people who are antag to murderbone any officer who so much as looks at them, always have anti-stun gear/chems, always have freedom implant/matter eater etc to break free of cuffs. Very repetitive and uninteresting gameplay patterns.

[Limit Common Comms]

Honestly I think the suggestion to remove common comms from headsets but keep them for station bounced radios and intercoms is a great idea. Definitely adds to the immersion, and a lot of the low RP stuff happens when people start saying silly things over the common chat. Departmental radios are way more interesting, and this would really encourage the heads of a department to be the go-betweens for the various departments, as it should be. 

I also love the idea of the emergency button instead of "; help maint!". This might have balance implciations for some gamemodes and various antags might need a bit of a nerf to keep them in check.

[Admin complaint - meow19 & marginalorb]

Admin(s) Key: meow19, marginalorb
Your ckey (Byond username): auce
Your Discord name (if applicable): Auce (Flebe + Magnus + Gael)

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): March 20, 2022 (9:00ish GMT)

ROUND ID:30678

Nature of complaint: Misconduct, abuse of powers, feedback
(Select all that apply: EG - clarification required, misapplication of rules, misconduct, abuse of powers, feedback, other)
Links to all relevant ban appeals for any bans related to this complaint: N/A

Brief description (tl;dr here. Just the critical elements): Extremely dismissive and rude text from meow19 as captured in the image attached, marginalorb spawned as a janitor ERT to clean my color grenades and baton me.

Full description of events: Regarding marginalorb, I felt like it is extremely inappropriate for an admin to one: spawn as a NPC just to ruin a player's fun that is harming no one, and two to attack a player as a high ranking NPC without fear of retribution because they are an admin. I attempted to ahelp this at the time and was told they were unable to do anything about it OOC. In addition, they continued to harass me in post game ghost chat.

[Admin complaint - Abydos2]

"This is not at all what had happened and completely untrue.

ESC was following his objectives as an antag, and got into a fight amongst security.. which you got dragged into as it was taking place into science. He is completely justified in being allowed to kill people who interfere with his objectives, you being one of them. When all of you ended up in medical, you spotted ESC being put in a cryo pod.. he got pulled out, found you couldn't talk, so you started taking him to the brig. An assistant spotted you, and attempted to stop you.. when you entered crit, you field executed him on the spot." 

I have absolutely no out of character problem with the antagonist trying to murder me. My post did not state this. In the logs you posted you were extremely convinced that I had pulled him out of a cryo pod but now you seem to have changed your view after realizing your mistake here. Your version of events is completely out of order and I find it ludicrous that you assume I'm lying for some reason? What do I possibly have to gain by lying here?

"Right here, you broke two rules. Validhunting and murder."

As I said before, I don't at all dispute the ruling you made on the server. I disagree with the philosophy of your ruling but I recognize that you have authority here.

"So that was me giving you two clarifications, one from the main rules themselves, and one from the advanced rules that hold the clarifications. That you field executing an antag is not acceptable or allowed, it breaks our rules. You then asked to talk over discord."

I asked to talk over discord because I didn't want to disrupt the round any further, if that's not the policy of the team then I accept it, and I logged back into the game once I had ghosted to speak in game as that was the preference of the admin team.

"[2022-02-02T07:58:47] ADMIN: PM: Abydos2->Auce/(Magnus Von Oberhardt): You literally were, you got up from surgery, ran to the cryo pod, pulled him out, and then field executed him when someone tried to stop you."

This is explicitly not an accurate summation of the events. I did not take the antag from the cryo pod, nor did I pull him out. I found an assistant dragging him away and I took him from the assistant who I believed was the accomplice of the antag from the previous fight. In addition: 

"[2022-02-02T07:51:30] SAY: (Ferro V1) (141,114,2): they are set to execute

[2022-02-02T07:51:30] ATTACK: Auce/(Magnus Von Oberhardt)(140,111,2) against : Fallen unconscious"

Does this log not EXPLICITLY prove my perspective that I was able to hear the line as it occured BEFORE I fell unconscious? I am extremely confused as to why you insist that I am somehow lying about this point. 

"After three players also told you that what you did was validhunting, and our convo, you sent in another ahelp. Wanting a conversation with another admin about the whole situation."

I asked to speak with the admins again because I wanted to discuss what happened in a civil and non-accusatory manner. I don't know why you chose to respond to my request if you are unable to do so without baseless accusations that are evidently false by your own log posts. 

"I explained the whole situation time, again, and again.. everytime, you refused to see why you were in the wrong or trying to point to some insane justification as to why you should be allowed to field execute him."

No, you treated me with contempt. "You've been given your warning, now you are trying to admin hop to find an answer you seek." What does this quote even mean? I wanted to have a frank out of character discussion of the round with a reasonable adult, and you make it seem like I'm running to the other parent or something to get some illusory chocolate candy or something. 
 
"[2022-02-02T08:18:19] ADMIN: PM: Auce/(Magnus Von Oberhardt)->Abydos2: What do you mean admin hop, I am so confused

[2022-02-02T08:18:32] ADMIN: PM: Auce/(Magnus Von Oberhardt)->Abydos2: I am asking to speak with someone who has the patience to explain to me in detail what I should have done differently

[2022-02-02T08:18:43] ADMIN: PM: Auce/(Magnus Von Oberhardt)->Abydos2: I'm not trying to change what happened or what your ruling was

[2022-02-02T08:18:53] ADMIN: PM: Auce/(Magnus Von Oberhardt)->Abydos2: I want to continue playing on the server without having future incidents

[2022-02-02T08:19:15] ADMIN: PM: Auce/(Magnus Von Oberhardt)->Abydos2: If you don't have the time or patience to explain it to me, this is fine. I just want to speak with someone who does."

The reason I posted this complaint is not at ALL because of what happened in the round, Abydos2. It is because of what I felt was an awful customer service experience handling with administration. This post is not a ban or warning appeal. As I stated in the round I just wanted to voice my displeasure with how you handled the situation and failed to be an effective mediator and educator.

[Admin complaint - Abydos2]

Admin(s) Key: Abydos2
Your ckey (Byond username): Auce
Your Discord name (if applicable): Auce (Magnus/Flebe/Gael)

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): Feb 2, ~3 am

Nature of complaint: Clarification, feedback
(Select all that apply: EG - clarification required, misapplication of rules, misconduct, abuse of powers, feedback, other)
Links to all relevant ban appeals for any bans related to this complaint: None but a warning was given

Brief description (tl;dr here. Just the critical elements): Was nearly murdered by an antag, after semi-recovering my character attempted to brig them for execution but collapsed on the way, then I shot them dead. Afterwards admin discussion was unproductive and hostile despite my well intent and attempts to deescalate.

Full description of events: In this round I, along with two other command members, one sec officer and several science staff were attacked in xenobiology by ESC and an accomplice, after a brief firefight I had to drag the blueshield to medbay as we were both dying. I had surgery partially done on my character, and before it was complete I was attacked by a terror spider and forced to flee. I spot ESC, who was the attempted murderer of myself and the others previously mentioned. I eject them from a sleeper and attempt to tell security about their presence and warn the med staff not to revive them, but I am unable to speak due to lung/suffocation damage. I see an assistant dragging them away (who I assumed was the previous accomplice from the situation in xenobiology), so I confront the assistant, attempt to speak to them but am still unable to speak. I drag them back towards the center of medbay and overhear that they are set to execute, so I begin to drag them to the brig. Halfway to the brig I collapse due to crit and am unable to bring them all the way there, so to prevent them from killing more of command and my staff I shoot them with the AEGs that were printed to deal with the spiders. 

After this, I am questioned by Abydos and we have a discussion about why what I did was considered validhunting, and while I disagree with that characterization of the event, I respect their ruling and don't want to contest it. What bothered me was how frank and unwilling to discuss this further with me Abydos was over the adminchat. They flatly refused to explain to me what I should have done differently when asked, accused me of attempting to "admin shop" when I tried to deescalate and speak with someone else and generally made me feel as though I wasn't being heard and wasn't able to get the clarification I needed to prevent this sort of disagreement from happening in the future. 

I'd like if admins were willing to explain disputes like these and have a less confrontational/accusatory attitude and making assumptions about my motivations as both a player and a person in admin discussions. And if do not have the time or patience to do so, to please direct me to where I can get feedback on my questions in a constructive manner. 

[2021 in review - Discussion thread]

Awesome to read. Thanks for compiling all this!