Bradstein Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 What I do think should happen is making the Clone Memory Disorder compulsory, so people don't remember anything about the circumstances of their deaths. As I understand it, that's optional currently. also, enforced CMD has never really worked for this server, and I doubt many people would be willing to go along with it. As stated above, we did have a period where you were unable to remember, then we had period in which you were able to. No CMD has worked out for the better in most cases, and netted us more players than we would have had with CMD heavily enforced. From an administrative and player standpoint, the hassle of enforcement coupled with the complete inability to prevent continual death (without violating CMD), would prove to be incredibly frustrating over time, especially since I, as an admin, wouldn't feel comfortable forcing people to roleplay a certain way in a certain circumstance, where I've never had to do anything like that in two full years. It just wouldn't feel right. What I do think should happen is making the Clone Memory Disorder compulsory, so people don't remember anything about the circumstances of their deaths. As I understand it, that's optional currently. I want to come out against forced CMD, for, while it would answer some of my concern pertaining to the limiting of antagonist strategies, it places onerous expectations on both the players and admins. Players would be expected to divorce their personal knowledge of antagonists from their in-character knowledge. Anyone who is familiar with the temptation to use information obtained while "screen-looking" in a split-screen console game will understand how challenging this expectation will be to uphold. When players inevitably succumb to using illicit information, admins will have to spend their time cleaning up the mess. In a medium-RP environment, this does not seem feasible. I would prefer to influence player behavior by altering the game mechanics so that certain incentives, disincentives are created. Fair enough, I suppose CMD will only work with certain types of players. But I still feel there should be some sort of negative impact when cloned. As you pointed out, being able to come back again and again unless you're blown to smithereens is overpowered as it is, but without any detrimental effect such as CMD you're going to get people asking for cloning to be removed all together. Something, in my opinion, needs to implemented to balance it out. Even if it's just that cloning will work only once, or that the genetic mutations which come with cloning can't be cured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbdumn5 Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 The main issue is, everything in the game that deals with player death(few things aside)) is built upon the function of cloning as it stands. I believe that the heart of the complaints is mostly based around the relative ease of negating death quickly, with little additional work, not necessarily cloning itself. Cloning, as stated over and over again in this thread, is one of the least efficient, if not the least efficient method of resurrection aside from defibbing a guy who has a million internal infections and all of his bones busted in. Be aware that antags are also given certain properties to benefit their health and at times, complete regeneration with little to no downsides besides time, changeling regeneration, traitor adrenaline/stimulant packs(Keep you up for a very long time, very hard to kill), wizard lichdom, shadowling darkness healing, cultists are able to revive other cultists as well as churn out tons of ghosts (Yes, I know it costs damage depending on length active), Vox healing needle gun, Nukeops medical beam gun, healing holoparasites, so on. This is in addition to the ways antags are able to completely prevent cloning, decapitation and spacing of the head/body, acid melting remaining organs, cult gibbing, disintegration gibbing, traitor explosive implants(has a gib option upon injection), throwing the brain of your target into the disposals trash compactor(Haven't tested it recently, but has worked on multiple occasions in the past, be the brain positronic or organic), cult soulstones, changleing absorption husking (requires advanced scanner or lengthy surgery), husking over time or due to fire effects(same as previous), spacing(works most of the time), most explosives, point blank ballistic shots(to the head), cooking a brain burger or brain cake(yes, I'm aware you need to cook it), staves of transformation followed up by damage spells(Simple mobs can't be cloned[but they can be lazarus injector-ed!]), singularities, cremation, etc. I'm just not sure that the main problem you have is with cloning itself, which is why I'm incredibly defensive of the way it currently is, because game balance in terms of lethality often times involves what it takes to restore the individual affected, if they can be restored at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doukan Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) Really though, just give defibs a much narrower window/require frequent recharging and have them deal heart damage (so people can't constantly revive to infinity) and most of the problems to do with easy resurrection would disappear, assuming strange reagent is nuked from orbit because that stuffs just OP. IMO ideally cloning would be more expensive, but not any more time consuming, purely so genetics would have an actual responsibility, something like having to cannibalize humanized monkeys for biomass maybe? Edited June 4, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigercat2000 Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 changleing absorption husking (requires advanced scanner or lengthy surgery), husking over time or due to fire effects(same as previous) actually A) can't husk over time anymore, fire doesn't husk you B) pretty sure changeling'ed people are cloneable by cloning machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbdumn5 Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 changleing absorption husking (requires advanced scanner or lengthy surgery), husking over time or due to fire effects(same as previous) actually A) can't husk over time anymore, fire doesn't husk you B) pretty sure changeling'ed people are cloneable by cloning machine Huh, when did we change the husking over time, and fire? Also, can the scanner actually scan people by default now without the upgraded parts it required before? EDIT:We do still have bodies rotting to the skeletal level given enough time, which prevents cloning, although I'm not sure if it acts similarly to a husk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doukan Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 It's kinda irrelevant since husked corpses haven't been a problem for a while, all medical have to do is one brain swap surgery and defib the result. If anything it's actually easier to put someone's brain in a monkey body than it is to clone them, not really sure if that's WAD but it's a funny work around all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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