Make combat less RNG-based

[Citinited]

 

Combat is something which I've seen quite a few people complain about in OOC, but I haven't seen any threads trying to address it. So here's one.

 

Currently, combat is almost entirely based on: who can click faster, and who has better luck. This is bad for a number of reasons which I won't go into, so I propose a couple of changes:

 

 

• increase click delay on player-controlled mobs to something like 1.5 seconds, or have a cooldown period where more attacks are weaker. This would help to combat the problem that faster clicks = win. It would also depower stuns, which still remain horribly broken.

• Remove "misses" entirely (by this I mean the annoying mechanic whereby you sometimes completely miss your target). This would make combat less RNG-based.

Change how different intents work. Disarm intent shouldn't instantly push your target over if you are lucky, it should instead first disarm them if they are carrying anything, then push them over. Help intent should sometimes block melee attacks.

Make disarm intent fling the carried item away from both players, preferably onto a different tile from either combatant. This should remove the situation where you can disarm push someone much more armed than you and then robust them with their own weapon while they are powerless to stop you.

 

 

Hopefully these changes would make for a less flawed combat system. Thoughts?

 

[johannhawk]

 

buff hugging.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinch_fighting

 

i have a red belt in something, i know whats up...

 

anyways disarm could have a tweak or two.

 

[DZD]

As far as your second request, that has already been done. You cannot entirely miss somebody with projectiles or melee, however you're somewhat likely to not hit the body part that you are aiming at.

[Coldflame]

Disarm should be tweaked in such a manner that it doesn't beat harm in 100% of situations at melee range.

[Spacemanspark]

 

 

Instastun is shit.

Instastun is shit.

Instastun is shit.

Oh don't mind me just writing my lines.

Instastun is shit.

Instastun is shit.

Instastun is shit.

 

 

[davidchan]

 

Stuns in general are overpowered. Disarm, Disablers. Fucking TASERS. I just played a Rev round today where using Tasers the Revs managed to knock down, swarm and kill the ERT before taking their armor and infiltrating security to kill the remaining heads.

 

When the jumpsuited freak with nothing but a taser beats the heavily armed and armored commando, we've got problems.

 

[HereticChurch]

 

Perhaps ERT hardsuits, DS hardsuits, and Syndi rigs in combat mode can be given taser immunity, and disabler resistance. Just so this isn't as much an issue. Could be some anti-electricity-weave stuff in the military grade hardsuits or something.

 

But other than that, combat isn't really RNG based, its more about clicking on someone before they click on you, while frantically moving back and forth at each other.

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

Not Syndi rigs.

They have their fucking Eshields and Eswords. that send stun projectiles flying back at you, and badass OP shotguns.

DS hardsuits already seem to block off stuns sometimes, IIRC. And Eswords.

ERT hardsuits could use that idea, however.

 

[Fox McCloud]

 

Perhaps ERT hardsuits, DS hardsuits, and Syndi rigs in combat mode can be given taser immunity, and disabler resistance. Just so this isn't as much an issue. Could be some anti-electricity-weave stuff in the military grade hardsuits or something.

 

But other than that, combat isn't really RNG based, its more about clicking on someone before they click on you, while frantically moving back and forth at each other.

 

Armor already mitigates both taser and disabler shots, just putting that out there.

 

 

And yeah, combat really isn't that RNG--hand to hand combat is, but if you're engaging in hand to hand, you're willingly going into a fight with the full knowledge that it's less effective than toolboxing/null rodding/knifing/etc someone....it's a very very small subset of combat in SS13.

 

[Spacemanspark]

 

I still think we should make tasers disablers only and stun batons should remain instastun.

Seriously.

 

[daisuke08]

 

I like the fourth idea and the third idea

 

And just to toss some more combat related things around, maybe adding some more stuff to grab like say, if you grab someone passively while they're on the ground with both hands (so grab, switch hands, grab) you can upgrade your intent and attempt to pin them to ground which could take as long as cuffing someone does.

 

From there, the defender can undo the pin and pick themselves up by resisting with either grab, harm, or disarm intent which gives a message to the attacker about it and takes about the same time as it did to pin them.

Then for fun stuff, the attacker can pick a counter intent rock-paper-scissors style and resist before the pin is undone to keep them pinned.

Maybe have it go Harm

So if the defender wins twice, the attackers loses all their stamina and the defenders gets up victoriously

If the attacker wins twice, the defender loses all their stamina and they can't undo the pin for maybe another minute or more (if it all?)

If it's a tie, the pin is undone but there's no stamina reduction

 

Alternatively, if the defender doesn't resist, the attacker can upgrade his intent and attempt to choke out whoever he has pinned to get rid of all of their stamina. Same rules and penalties apply as if the defender was resisting.

 

Seems like a good way to subdue someone without hurting them just in case you want to keep them still for some reason and you don't have cuffs.

 

[Midaychi]

You could probably base robust combat system 2.0 off of adding new modules to this https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/8810 and stealing things from this https://github.com/Baystation12/Baystation12/pull/8722

[tigercat2000]

I believe hand-to-hand combat being mostly RNG-based is actually a good thing. It makes it a gamble, you have no guarantee to win. And, Midaychi, both of those are currently planned to be ported- but they both rely on the basic RNG-based combat system still, they aren't standalone.