Adming Complaint - Fraility

[PPI]

Admin(s) Key: Fraility
Your ckey (Byond username):
Your Discord name (if applicable):

Round ID: 26510

Nature of complaint: Abuse of powers
(Select all that apply: EG - clarification required, misapplication of rules, misconduct, abuse of powers, feedback, other)
Links to all relevant ban appeals for any bans related to this complaint:

Brief description (tl;dr here. Just the critical elements):

Admin spawns in shoots a penetrator round at multiple vox standing at bridge and then exits by dusting at arrivals.

Full description of events:

Spawned it at some point as Kaiden Lowe, shoot several vox at bridge with a sniper penetrator round, hid in arrivals for a minute, got caught by security and dusted on the spot.
Later on Mara Akhan spawned in as a syndicate officer with a special objective to a Charlie Taylor with a syndicate penetrator sniper rifle.

After he got caught and dusted,  a new one was sent in, this one with an emag and ebow

Who then emagged a secborg who helped with finding vox to murder

Next came

Ontop of emag and ebow had adrenals, and shot a sec officer, the blueshield, and a doctor and finnally managed to shoot four vox before dusting away

 

Attacking every crewmember because of what species they play like this is a really shitty thing to do.

[Fraility]

Admin's version of events:

May I address that throughout your complaint you have pulled specific quotes and screenshots to make it appear a lot worse then it actually was. In addition you haven't actually stated what you are making a complaint about. Is it that I ran an event that targeted Vox? Would you have made a complaint if the event targeted drask? Or even Diona? Is the complaint about the actions of the third hunter who hit more humans then Vox? Again I need to know what the complaint is being targeted at to address the issues. Especially considering this complaint is about the abuse of power However I will attempt to break things down below.

 

There appears to be two separate incidents. The first where I spawned in and shot a line of Vox was because at the time I observed around nine Vox all harassing another player in front of the bridge which is unacceptable. However rather then private messaging nine separate people about harassing one player and issuing warnings I choose to do it in a what appeared to be more 'comical' fashion.  By the time I arrived I some of the Vox had dispersed however there was still approximately five left so I shot the three in the line that were still around that player. I returned to arrivals and dusted but was seen by a security officer doing so. It was not dusting because I got caught.  

 

Given the behaviour the Vox demonstrated at the begging of the round an Event where by the syndicate sent hunters to shoot the Vox and keep score cards. Granted the choice of weapon wasn't the best, however it was what came to mind at first and given what arsenal the syndicate have IC it was the most appropriate for the theme of the event. If I was working outside of lore and what each faction has access too I could have provided energy based rifles, however again syndicate use ballistic weapons and not energy which granted cause more damage to Vox. However I could have used the bolt action rifle but we encounter the same issue.

 

Now as for the event I realised that Vox take more damage and didn't want to kill players out right so the quote where you have me saying 15 minutes is incorrect. This was the original amount however it was rectified to 10. I also was only going to originally send 4 maybe even 5, however I changed this to 3 when I saw the damage caused. In addition to prevent the hunters just outright killing one Vox by sitting there there shooting that Vox until death I specifically briefed the hunters that you can only get one point per Vox. Which I reminded the hunters throughout the event via admin pm and headset messages.

 

Finally I am not to take fault for another players actions, in the case of the third hunter. However the issue with them shooting other crew was due to them getting disarmed and their non lethal option, an energy crossbow taken. Given that a good portion of crew were chasing them I decided not to pm for them to stop. However I was watching carefully. Given the experienced player behind the hunter and from my own observations I made the decision that his own actions were not malicious and were in self defence when needed.

 

If you would like me to address any points more in depth then I will. At the end of the day I do not condone the actions of the a multitude of Vox harassing one player. Perhaps consider you actions as well in the future.

 

Furthermore The title of the subject of the complaint and in addition to the form not being filled out correctly demonstrates to me you are not taking this seriously.

 

Admin's reasoning for actions: Punishment for the harassment of another player without having to issue 9+ warnings.

 

Disputing of: 

Abuse of power, there was no abuse of power everything was justified.

The appropriate topic for the complaint should be feedback.

The complaint is not clear and concise in addition it provides false representation.

The form is not fully completed.

The title of the topic displays that they do not take this procedure seriously.

[SabreML]

Your ckey (Byond username): SabreML
Your Discord name (if applicable): SabreML#3461

Involvment in incident: One of the Vox players originally "Harassing" the player in front of the bridge, and someone who was killed twice by the "Hunters".

Agreement/disagreement with described events:

Personally, I disagree that an admin complaint is warranted here. It was a pretty extreme reaction admin wise, but even as someone who was attacked and killed multiple times, I still believe that it made the round more interesting and enjoyable for all parties involved. (Even if only in hindsight.)

---

I can't recall exactly what started the whole thing, but the "Harassment" issue was around 7 or 8 players agreeing over comms to "Teach Shesi a lesson", and then standing in a circle around him in front of the bridge, and sneezing for about 2-3 minutes. Obviously the chat window was going pretty quickly at the time but I can't remember him telling us to stop at any point during that. Only at the end did he say "You'll regret this" (or something along those lines), and after that the crowd started to disperse. Had he actually been uncomfortable then he could've tried to get away from his bridgewatching spot rather than standing still, talked it out IC, or even LOOC'd us to stop. So OOC consent was assumed.

A minute or so after that Shesi asked over comms for all of the involved Vox to come back to the bridge so that he could "Apologise" for his actions. This was pretty obviously a trap but I came over to watch anyway out of curiosity. Then the whole 'Penetrator Sniper' thing happened, as shown in the first screenshot above.

---

I assumed at the time that @MrSynnester (Shesi) had set this up with another admin via asay as revenge for the sneezing incident, and lured the players in once it was all ready. This view was reinforced by the fact that:

1. Earlier in the round one of the admins said in OOC that people should "Say I in looc for a surprise", and then lightning bolted all players who did so. This indicated to me that the sniper thing was more of that kind of playful admemery, rather than a substitute for a full admin warning as Fraility is saying.
2. The "You'll regret this" quote, and the fact that this was said immediately following the first shot: 
3. Shesi claimed (IC) responsibility for all following events and 'Hunters', by his own admission.

Spoiler

4 hours ago, Fraility said:

There appears to be two separate incidents. The first where I spawned in and shot a line of Vox was because at the time I observed around nine Vox all harassing another player in front of the bridge which is unacceptable. However rather then private messaging nine separate people about harassing one player and issuing warnings I choose to do it in a what appeared to be more 'comical' fashion.  By the time I arrived I some of the Vox had dispersed however there was still approximately five left so I shot the three in the line that were still around that player. I returned to arrivals and dusted but was seen by a security officer doing so. It was not dusting because I got caught.  

 

The quoted paragraph above implies that Fraility saw a player being harassed in front of the bridge, and without any communication with said player (who is also an admin) decided to solve it in this way.

As I said at the start, I don't have any issues with the event as a whole. From my perspective it was very exciting and led to an interesting character development thing. I just find it hard to believe that it wasn't coordinated between the two active admins at the time as a kind of IC 'payback' thing, considering that both were heavily involved from the start.

---

Edit: Just wanted to reiterate that this post wasn't meant as an agreement or disagreement with the admin complaint. But more as another perspective on the events.

Edited April 9, 2021 by SabreML
[hr]'s for formatting

[MrSynnester]

Hi! Just tossing my two quick cents in.

Of course I wasn't actually upset by the Vox "harassment" at all, but Fraility saw it and thought it could be an amusing situation to try and bonk them all, to which I agreed. I started the "you'll regret this" as Fraility was setting up for the shot, the stuff after I didn't expect but my only opinion on it would have been making it clear the Vox could have defended themselves earlier.

I also basically admitted to being the IC cause of this many times, I think I was only set to arrest towards the end of the round and not many others seemed to have cared which is a shame.

As for the "Surprise" thing, yeah it was extended and I thought I'd be a bit of a little shit by zapping anyone that did actually say I, harmless silliness.

From what I gather most of the Vox players seemed to enjoy it, but of course I don't know everyone's opinion/if people are just trying to be nice etc.

Anyways, just my quick two cents.

[necaladun]

Hi there,

Running an event with antags targeting crew is absolutely fine. Giving a theme to who they target it is especially cool, such as vox, skrell, 30 year old bald humans, or people whose name starts with S. Targeting real-world groups subject to discrimination IRL wouldn't be cool otoh!

@Fraility also adapted his ideas in reaction the the level of damage being done, which I encourage too. Events are never perfect and I'm sure this could have gone better, but it's well within what's allowed and in no way an abuse of powers. 

Sometimes events and antags mean your character might be targeted for violence. This is the nature of the game.

Complaint is without merit and resolved.