Requesting clarification concerning an interaction with an unknown admin.

[Accinator50]

Note: I do not want to bother the staff team of paradise. This is low priority so please do not ruin your holidays for this post. I don't want to get any player or admin in troubel with this I just try to understand what I did wrong in order to avoid doing the same mistake next time. I decided to post it here because there is no other place where I could post it. I am sorry if I seem to be trying to get on your nerves because  I ahelped it two times requesting clarification but sadly my internet crashed both times so I was not able to get an answer - which is the reason I'll try to understand  the situation here. Sorry that this ban appeal is so long but i think it is required to understand the entier situation in order to understand my point of view. Also sorry if there are any misspellings because english is not my native language.

Admin(s) Key:  Unknown
Your ckey (Byond username): Accinator50
Your Discord name (if applicable): I have discord but I never really use it and don't check if I got any new messages.  If it is required: Accinator50#8075 (note: If it is required I can try to check discord every day)

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): 20.12.2020; around 18:45 (CET) - (probably 19:45 GMT)

Nature of complaint: Clarification required

Links to all relevant ban appeals for any bans related to this complaint: / (Not concerning a ban)

Brief description (tl;dr here. Just the critical elements):  CC ordered me to get arrested for sabotage as captain after ordering security to check the AIs laws. Security might have broken into the AI satellite (I didn't watch it on camera so I can't tell it for sure. I just saw the AI opening their door to it's core) in order to get to the AI satellite.

Full description of events:

I joined the round late as the captain. When I arrived the situation onboad the station was already pretty messy. After I've heared the AI talking something about trying to not wake up their children (I do not know what they exactly said because I sadly don't have a screenshot of  it) I realized that it would be a good idea to know on what laws the AI was running on so I requested it to state it's laws.

(Note: I'm not sure if I need to show such screenshots but I thought that too much is better then too little. Also sorry for the black thing in the upper left corner. That is the starting screen setup window which won't be seen in the next few screenshots.)

Spoiler

(Note: I'm not sure if I need to show such screenshots but I thought that too much is better then too little. Also sorry for the black thing in the upper left corner. That is the starting screen setup window which will also be seen in a few of the next screenshots.)

 

Then the AI said that it does not have an Ion law but I was a bit too fast and already entered the AI upload. I forgot to deactivate the turrets which I did afterwards.

Spoiler

After I deactivated the turrets on the panel the AI activated their turrets again while I was in it's AI upload and said "Who's turrets are your turrets?" in response to me telling them not to activate their turrets. This made me think that it actually could have an Ion Law given that it didn't actually "fix shit" but watch me enter the AI upload. Afterwards I realized that it is possible that it had to stop doing what it did because of me but I did not came to the conclusion at this time and thought that it activating it's turrets would be another sign of it having Ion Laws. I also accidently must have clicked on the machine because I didn't want to change the AIs laws yet but rather give it another chance.

Spoiler

(Note: I said "Stop activate your turrets" because I thought it did also activate it the first time when I entered the AI upload but thinking about it without beeing stressed during that round it's likely that the turrets either activated because the deer entered the AI upload or because they were configured to shoot at anyone entering the AI upload because of the code red. (Based on experience I don't think that turrets shoot on people having access to that area without beeing modified but I could be wrong.)

Given that I accidently clicked on the machine without actually knowing I told the AI to state it's laws or that I'll reset them. After changing their laws to crewsimov (again)  I also proceeded to ask them to state it's laws because I wanted to see if they are now actually fixed or if I would need to purge the laws in order to remove an Ion Law. (It refusing those requests lead to me thinking that it does not have to follow crewsimov and because it kept making several jokes about me requesting it to state it's laws like "This unit doesn't know your laws" and given that it also activated the turrets again after I've entered the upload I thought it must be something wrong.)

Spoiler

(Because I think with this knowledge you can already understand my point of vier that's why I'm trying to speed things up so you don't need to read too much)

If I counted correctly I requested the AI to state it's laws four more time before I said that it has one last chance to state it's laws before I'll go to it's core. It did not state it's laws so I had to come to the AI satellite. There all doors had an deactivated ID scan which prevented me to check on it's laws and it still didn't state them. I asked the AI two times to deactivate and open it's doors in oder to let me go to it's core and check on it's laws. At that time it also had to follow an order of the HoS but I thought that that was not the reason for it given that it also refused to follow my order when I told it to state it's laws. Afterwards I think I should have given the AI more time but in that situation it was clear for me that the AI is rogue or just trying to be unfriendly towards me. I thought that it beeing rogue is a better justification and also made ICly sense. So I left the AI satellite and  told security that they should "raid" the AI because it likely is rogue. At this point the magistrate urged me to calm down saying that the AI was making minor mistakes but I did not see this as mistake or simply not seeing my messages but rather trying to do as much as possible to prevent me from knowing it's laws. Later the AI said that it wants to be carded by the magistrate or the Nanotrasen Representative because they would be the "only semi intelligent beings here". To be honest that led to me beeing a bit angry OOCly at the AI because in my  opinion it now was OOCly clear that it wasn't rogue and just trying it's best to annoy me. While the AI tried to justify itself I said that it just needs to state it's laws or let me enter it's core to check it's laws if it wants the raid to be canceled. It still didn't state it's laws and started to insult me saying f.e. that I "throw(s) a fit" when I don't get what I want within three seconds of asking. (Note: I don't want the player to get any OOC punishment I'm just trying to explain my point of view. I can understand that sometimes people can get very stressed and angry while playing SS13 and I also started to respond in a not too nice manner talking ironically with the AI.) It than started to discuss with me for a few minutes why sending security to check on it's laws was an idiotic decision. (I'm not too sure if the following part happened before my argument with the AI or after the argument because I do not have any screenshot of it.) Then I saw that the AI opened it's core doors to let the CE and an officer enter it's chamber. After some time the officer said that it is okey and has the law I uploaded. After that they said that the CE would request to keep the AI. I told the officer to tell the CE that the AI needs to stay in it's core because it needs to work and not to be carded in the CEs pocket but that the CE can stay in the AIs core if the AI accepts it. Later I've heared that the CE knocked down the officer and fled with the carded AI. I ordered the CE to be arrested for grand theft because they didn't obey my order to put the carded AI back in it's core but rather ran away with it.

Now to the main reason for this:

Later the Nanotrasen Represenative said that CC messaged him that I need to be arrested for sabotage. Seeing as I don't see any reason how this is sabotage I wanted to ask what I did wrong in this situation and how I may handle a situation like that differently in the future.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Accinator50
I added things I forgot to add. I thought I was not able to edit it so I accidently posted it below (will delete the other post). Corrected a few misspellings and made the text better to read.

[Spacemanspark]

I was the AI. The situation was very stressful on both ends, I think. The admin in question who sent the fax was thatdanguy23. 

While I personally would have kept it an IC issue and not gotten CC involved... 

An AI can only do so much at a time. When you came on station, I was actually very, very busy. I'd latejoined myself and was almost instantly thrust into the chaos of the round. A bomb had detonated engineering, and I began trying to get an engineer or two to fix solars, deal with some traitor that was in perma using a voice changer to call for help in false places, and turn on APCs/ open doors. Someone hotwired the engine briefly and it took me several minutes to get someone who was able to cut the wires to do so before electricity shot throughout the station's APCs. 

Just a bit after, a syndicate broke loose of the brig and began firing lasers and wrecking havoc with a guardian. My attention turned towards that primarily, bolting doors to try and impede their progress... and failing rather miserably. They were eventually slaughtered, and I returned to other things. 

And then science burned down. This was done due to grief from another player, which I handled myself and, with the help of another maintainer, began to fix it with admin abilities, while also trying to keep handling a few AI related things. This is about the part where you come in. 

The RD began screaming at me to handle something in a rather... unhelpful manner. I turned my attention towards that, asked them not to scream along with an off hand remark that the children were asleep, which I'd hoped would be more amusing than much else. 

This is around the time you asked for me to state my laws. I missed the first request as I was handling the RDs issue, and when you asked again I asked you to wait. This was so I could wrap up what I was doing without the RD getting more uppity and handle a few other orders that had come my way. After that, I'd intended to give you my undivided attention, complete with a statement of my laws, an overall status update on the station and a request for what you wanted done next. I just needed a bit to get things in order. You were not the first, nor the last to be told to wait, and I didn't believe it to be much of an issue. 

I was wrong, apparently. This spurred a rather large argument--mind you, I'm still handling things with other crewmembers nagging me to do this and that in the midst of it. I chose to prioritize that over your request, as many of their needs were viewed as much more important and immediate. I had not harmed you, nor were you in danger. 

Eventually, you took to resetting the laws. I'd kind of hoped this would settle down the issue, but looking back... not really the brightest thought in my mind. Paranoia against AIs is generally ever present and not so easily remedied... and the snarky comments you got probably didn't help matters. As an aside, the banter during all that was entirely IC and quite regular for Spark. I have nothing against you as a person. 

When the situation only continued to escalate, you eventually moved to my satellite. Right as you requested I let you in, the HoS wanted me over in processing to check something. And... admittedly out of annoyance, I handled the HoS first, which took longer than I expected. When I returned to you, you had already left. Security was shortly afterwards told to bust down the satellite. 

At that point, I did call on the rep or magistrate to card me specifically. Up to that point, they'd been the only ones trying to actively defuse the situation and had no intentions of actively attacking me. The CE, however, showed up first... and as they were the only ones actively heading for the core, I threw up my hands and allowed them to enter the core room with an intellicard and another officer present to check my laws. I had the CE keep me on hand, as I felt tensions had gone too far and I was more than a bit too exhausted at that point. The CE, surprisingly, held firm to keeping me on their person as I'd requested, even after they were fired for it... which I did feel guilty about, admittedly. 

The rep, seemingly done with the situation, decided to fax CC about the issue. I glanced at the fax but hardly paid attention to it, I just wanted the round to be done at that point. 

 

Looking back on it, I did perhaps play a bit too firmly on Spark's more demeaning side, partially out of annoyance with how much stuff was piling onto me all at once. 

However... an AI can only handle so much at a time. Repairing science and trying to keep the station afloat while following other orders is a little more important than stating the laws, and unlike a real world AI multiprocessing is more of a pipe dream I wish I had. Not to mention I intended to give you a bit more than just a law status. This is something I'd request you keep in mind. AI is considered the toughest role in the game for a good reason. 

That said, after a few hours of cooling off a bit... I will also apologize. I think both of us could have done a bit better, but I could likely have held back on a few of the IC comments a bit more, regardless of how Spark's character usually is in such situations. Playing captain is also not the easiest role to manage, and I do generally try to inform command of my laws. 

[Accinator50]

Thanks for explaining your part of the story! I didn't know how much things you had to do and that you were handling OOC things as an admin, which makes playing a hard role even harder. I can also say that I should have handled this situation differently but I didn't know how busy you really were. Given your point of view it's also more obvious why CC ordered me to be arrested for sabotage. Because of my orders a stressful situation became even more stressful for another player and admins normally use CC to ensure that everyone has a good shift. 

I think I can learn from this situation to be more patient.

Thanks for your reply! I think this situation can be considered as resolved (unless someone wants to add something to it).

[necaladun]

On 12/21/2020 at 7:13 AM, Accinator50 said:

! I think this situation can be considered as resolved (unless someone wants to add something to it).

Helps if I actually mark it as resolved.