Confusing Event - Fraility

[WombatWave]

Admin(s) Key: Fraility
Your ckey (Byond username): WombatWave
Your Discord name (if applicable): WombatWave#6374

Date(s) of incident (GMT preferred): 7:46 AM GMT, 12:46 PM EST

Nature of complaint: Clarification Required, not even sure what to put here maybe
(Select all that apply: EG - clarification required, misapplication of rules, misconduct, abuse of powers, feedback, other)
Links to all relevant ban appeals for any bans related to this complaint: N/A

Brief description (tl;dr here. Just the critical elements): Fraility (Victor Creed) was claiming to be a "CC Officer" and had demoted my Warden for disrespect. I had arrested Victor on the grounds that they had no identification or relevant material to prove the claim that they were with CC.

Full description of events: I was brought to the attention of Victor when Sizzle, my Warden was having an argument in the IAA's office. According to creed he was a CC officer demoting Sizzle for "disrespecting a CC officer" I had detained Victor for questioning on the legitimacy of his claims. The Magistrate claimed that they knew the man and that I were to uncuff him, and I complied. When asked for identification, Creed then pulled out a 1911 and shot Sizzle, who at this point was stripped and demoted. and yelled "What more proof do I need?" The problem I have is that there was no indicator of any possibility of Creed even being from CC. The only thing he claimed as identification was a mindshield and a 1911 that he used to shoot Sizzle with as a means to prove their legitimacy . In the future all I ask is if another event of this nature is to be held the admins have some way to prove it through documentation. I had resorted to having the IAA fax a message to CC because I had no other means to prove his identification. It made me fearful to even apprehend Victor out of fear of being job banned. When I reported it to the admins I was given the auto response that it was an IC issue, so I had no idea how to handle the situation other to ICly contact the admins. I apologize if this was a waste of time, but something about this rubbed me the wrong way.

[Viz]

Your ckey (Byond username): Woje
Your Discord name (if applicable): Woj#2547

Involvment in incident: I was observing the round at the time, and paying close attention to the brig in particular.

Agreement/disagreement with described events: There was indeed no good indication that said undercover SOO was indeed an SOO, as he had a civilian ID, and taking meta knowledge of CC gear at face value really does not make sense IC and OOC, considering just as easily admins could've decided to give a pulse gun to a non-CC character, even if it would be somewhat strange. Besides, the character themselves stated that they demoted Sizzle for disrespecting them, which is really silly and power-trippy, especially considering the "proof" consisted specifically of shooting Sizzle with the pulse gun instead of even just showing it would accomplish the same thing (even though as I mentioned earlier that is very weak "proof", so that "same thing" isn't a lot). He also clearly played favorites by being buddy-buddy with the magistrate whose word security was apparently supposed to take at face value, even though "I know them personally" is just... not how it works, as the magistrate doesn't exactly get a free pass to invite civilian buddies to the brig, a high security area.

I have some other gripes with the admin in question, where they've done questionable things to people in syndicate depot that didn't even use the comms console, which included blowing someone up randomly... Just a random PDA-bomb-like explosion with no cue. But that is not really of importance here besides highlighting that Fraility might need a reminder that his role as an admin is to make the round fun, not power trip and mess with people for his own amusement. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Woje
messed up and said just IC when meant IC and OOC

[Fraility]

There were events that transpired earlier in the round that were contributing factors to this escalation of events. Including a short pda exchange between Creed and sizzle regarding correct sop when brigging someone with a perceived snappy response along the lines of don't you tell me how to do my job. Which i dealt with IC but admittedly soured my mood towards sizzle. 

The argument in the IAA office escalated from an incident where I walked into the brig  several times through out the round one to return an AFK officer to somewhere safe and a couple of times to speak with the magistrate who was aware I was on the station. Despite multiple people witnessing this on several occasions including yourself as HOS, nobody questioned my brig access. Myself and the magistrate picked up on this so I blatantly went to the front door and opened it in front of sizzle. Later on I went to the IAA where the argument transpired despite the magistrate who is a mind shielded personnel (trustworthy) vouching that I was from centcomm. 

 

Despite this the argument started continued and turned into sizzle shouting at creed and myself shouting back. I probably should have handled it more professional however it sent my Batari box spinning and out of reaction I demoted him to get more control of the situation. This escalated further when you arrested me and took me to processing where the magistrate told you to uncuff me and vouched for me again. I demonstrated that I had spec ops grade equipment and you said it proves nothing to which point I shot sizzle with pulse. I admit I could have shot the wall or a table, again it was because I had yet calmed down OOC. If we had more time I would have likely reinstated sizzle once the issue was resolved however the round was coming to an end. The ahelp was reasoned with IC issue to try and prompt and earlier fax or message to centcomm however it seems this again wasn't truly understood. Replying to a ahelp saying yes it's a centcomm officer would be relaying OOC knowledge.

 

I do appreciate the advise and I future I will carry a centcom ID if I go undercover like this again just to provide more proof. Again i apologise for anyone this event affected in a negative way as that was not my intention. I have also spoke to other admins and gotten advise for further events. I have also attempted to speak to the player Sizzle to apologise directly via discord. Whether they accept the apology is yet to be seen.

 

It was a blunder on my part and I accept this.

[WombatWave]

Thank you for owning up to it. In the future all I ask is that maybe you fax all of the Heads in advance and carry some sort of ID. I had no prior knowledge of you or your position until we spoke in the IAA's office. I hope nothing in the future will happen like this because of this encounter. Cheers!

[PeakPerformance]

Your ckey (Byond username): PeakPerformance
Your Discord name (if applicable): Peak#2869

Involvment in incident: I was the Warden, Sizzle.

Agreement/disagreement with described events: I'd like to give a quick rundown of the events through my eyes : I'm brigging someone after asking over comms a buncha times for details about this particular case, still way below maximum processing time, but already in the cell for maybe a minute. I give them 5 for battery only, instead of adding the major trespass I could have added... and there goes this absoluty random civilian telling me that what I did was incorrect, never seen them or heard of them before. To my eyes they have NO CLUE of what is happening, no mindshield, no nothing. Well, we get those all the time, I just ignored them and rushed to the three people calling me to perma someone.

While I'm dressing the perma inmate up, I get a PDA message from the same guy, again, reitering that I need to change the timer. At this point I think I did what 90% of people would've done in these circumstances : I told em not to teach me muh job, damnit. Still dealing with the guy in perma, an IAA informs me over comms that CC sent a fax saying I should learn to take criticism. At this point I knew full well what was happening, I thought I had done my best so far to uphold decent standards in sec being pseudo-hos for an hour though, so it definitely came as a surprise. Talked to the magis, they tell me to "Not mess with this civillian", that "they're special", stuff like that. Ugh, okay, we're hearing zaaps from perma gotta get back to it, kinda forget about it. 

Coming back out of perma, I see someone with a civilian emblem on my huds opening and closing brig doors repeatedly, I point at them, start chasing as they start running, use my hailer, and they whip out an m1911 to tazer me. Not a word, they run off. I realise who it is, I'm like "Okay, this has to stop, we need explanations". I create a profile for them, set them to arrest for having sec access and being armed with, again, no mindshield. - I'm not even sure how much knowledge we'd have of SOO weaponry, to be honest.. and, besides, weapons can be stolen, people can be deceived. Shortly after, they spoke for the first time on sec comms, don't really remember what, think it was pretty snarky one liner, no conversation was engaged.

Magis, the IAA, the Civilian and I meet in the IAA office, we chat a bit,  I'm.. not exactly sure anymore because it happened quite fast, and I didn't really clip logs or anything, but I honestly think I wasn't the first one to elevate the tone.. don't even remember what we were shouting, though I definitely did show dominance with the megaphone. I get shock arm tazed, demoted, stripped, they get arrested by the rest of sec, who, at this point, are witnessing the warden for the whole shift, who's been pseudo HOS for an hour, get dragged away, naked and cuffed, by a civilian - STILL with no mindshield, no notice from the magis, explanations over comms, stopping to talk, they're just  running. 

Get brought into processing, I get uncuffed. Magis runs in vouching, with still no other proof than her words, for the civilian - now suddenly with a mindshield ! They start flashing weaponry, said something like "Do you want me to start pulsing ?" to give legitimacy to their claims. I egged them on a little so me getting pulsed is somewhat fair, but I was kinda done with this whole situation, as the transfer vote was happening, so I cryod. Didn't witness it myself but d-chat reported them saying that they had demoted the warden for belittling them. 


IN CONCLUSION

That's just my recollection for the record. I wouldn't say my round was absolutely ruined, if only uplifted by the absurdity of the ordeal. There was no major threats, we did have to deal with somewhat difficult not clear-cut cases, but we definitely had some time to deal with such a situation, and it was.. original ? So, while it didn't really piss me off or anything, I just think it sets an absolutely terrible example of what COOs should strive to be, and the whole premise was dubious at best. I don't know what Fraility expected to happen when they started telling sec what to do as a completely random Civilian with no certification, tazing them, trespassing on brig, fleeing from arrest and trying to show legitimacy by flashing weaponry... while never EVER trying to engage in conversation until it seemingly had escalated way too far.

It's a shame, I think our little shouting match in the IAA's office could've been a nice catharsis to the conflict at hand, and I was hoping we could've calmed it down afterward and chatted it up.. I held back the leg sweep, damnit ! But, heh, it happens, we all get sucked in the heat of the moment sometimes.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Peak

[necaladun]

Hi there, thanks for your various reports.

While this is a fuckup by @Fraility (who has owned up to it to both here and to me in private ) I think this points towards a bit more of an institutional problem with the use of CC characters and their interactions with command. 

We've had some guidelines, but I think the whole "identifying yourself" needs to become actual policy, with an established IC way of doing it. Use of force needs to be clarified, and likely a whole bunch more things that will happen as I write it.

On 11/18/2020 at 5:44 AM, WombatWave said:

I hope nothing in the future will happen like this because of this encounter.

This will be the goal of this.

 

Complaint is with merit, Frailty has accepted this, and is being volunteered to help proofread any policy I write.

 

I'll leave this open for 3 days or so just in case you want to add anything more, otherwise I'll move it to resolved. As always, I can be PM'd on discord or forums or whatever to discuss this.

[BryanR]

Moving to resolved. Australian days are apparently normal people months. :P