The Karma Discussion (that nobody wants to have)

[JarlElbow]

Yes, I know how many times people have made suggestions like this on the forums before, and I know how many times they have been shot down.

Though, allow me to bring this discussion up again, since the karma system is the one problem that I've always had with paradise. Not because it's completely broken, but because I don't feel like it's utilized to its full extent in rewarding players who perform and RP well. The basis for the system, letting players reward others for good performance in return for letting them unlock new jobs and races, is a great idea, but I want to touch on some of the issues I have, and a couple of possible solutions I'd like to offer.

The Problem: Now, my main issue with the karma system is very simply how little the player-base utilizes it, and how players that are doing their jobs perfectly, still are not very likely to receive any karma over a single, or multiple rounds. Mix this with most of the unlocks requiring up to 45 karma, and you have a system that feels completely unbalanced. When I was talking with another player about the system, they gave me this analogy that I liked. Say there are five players in a room. Two of them are regular, run of the mill players, one is a great roleplayer, one is doing their job perfectly, and one is doing a hilarious gimmick in this round. At the end of the round, the player with the gimmick will have gained four karma, and will give his karma to the person who has been RPing the entire round. This isn't every single round, but it is the majority, from all that I've observed. 

Sure, all the other players could just start coming up with great gimmicks themselves, but that doesn't really reward them at all for what the system attempted to accomplish when it was added, and the players just trying to do their job will hardly see any reward at all. Some people I've talked to have gained less than 15 karma over multiple months of playing, despite being exemplary players in almost every way.

My Solutions: My first solution is a pretty simple one that I got from another person. Increase the amount of karma points that someone can give in a single round to three, yet make it so that they can only give one KP to each player in that round. If a player is forced to choose a single person to give their KP to in a round, of course they are gonna spend it on the antag, or the person with the most spectacular gimmick in that round, and many players might seem scared to spend their karma in the first place, in case they come across something later that they'd want to spend it on instead. The system is meant to reward players, so why limit the number of points someone can give, if they feel like multiple people deserve those points? 

This next suggestion is the controversial one, and the one I expect to have shot down immediately. I'm not even quite sure how this system will work myself yet, but there is a chance it could work out. Perhaps having KP also tied to certain objectives over the course of the round. I've already seen a suggestion for adding more job objectives to players, like making a certain chem in chemistry, or breeding a specific color of slime in xenobio. Why not reward these objectives with a single KP whenever they are completed, that way players who are doing their jobs well can still get karma, even if their job doesn't have the chance to interact with people as much. It might seem way different from how the system is handled now, but not every player has the ability to come up with great gimmicks, and not every job gets to RP that much over the course of their round, so why leave them out for those reasons? (Decided that I don't like this idea anymore.)

Also to counterbalance these, the KP costs might need to be raised slightly. Though to what degree, I have no idea. Unlocking new races, especially the more expensive ones, should still be a time commitment, but it should at least be one that the average player could do in a reasonable amount of time.

Conclusion: Like I said at the beginning, this isn't the first time karma has been brought up in suggestions, and isn't likely to be the last, but I'd just like to spark discussion on the topic a bit. Tell me if you think the system needs changes, or why you think it's fine as it is now. The biggest reason I get from people as to why the system hasn't changed is because it's been part of the server in this form for so long, and players don't like big changes. Either way, let's get some discussion about this in the comments!

Edited September 29, 2019 by JarlElbow

[McRamon]

Shutting down second suggestion immediately - karma will never be farmable. At least until heads change their mind. It was suggested and discussed many times.

 

First... hm... I dunno

[JarlElbow]

Yeah, the second suggestion was a bit of a stretch, even I'll admit that. 

As for the first, I think it's a pretty simple idea that will only benefit people. It can't be abused, since no more than one of your three karma points can be given to a single person each round. People might feel more inclined to give out karma if they have more of it, instead of just waiting to find someone doing something crazy. 

[Gaty]

I like the first suggestion, but not because that way people will win more karma or the system will get fixed or anything like that.

Is just because sometimes I really liked two characters and I can only give karma to one which makes the little baby jesus and me sad.

[BryanR]

The first suggestion isn't a terrible one. Something I do, and this happens often, is I note down the individuals who I want to award karma but was unable to do so, so that I can do so in other rounds since there are some rounds I feel that nobody really earned my karma.

Second suggestion is a no-go in my opinion. Karma is meant to be a reward for individuals from player to player and this makes it less of a reward and more of a farmed resource. Nothing encourages the individual to do the job with the objective well, it only encourages them to do the job until the objective is complete.

All in all, the karma system isn't perfect but it does work. I myself can go a very long period of time without receiving a single point if only because I play roles that have little interaction sometimes and really dislike playing antagonist roles so you can imagine it doesn't rain on me like a metaphorical monsoon. However I've earned a nice chunk over the year I've played, enough to unlock what I want from the shop. So it isn't impossible to earn enough to get goodies, it just takes a bit of time and patience.

[Carthusia]

One thing in the karma system i wish for, is that you could spend karma on cosmetics, be able to choose to start with saya blue jumpsuit, mailman outfit or various other bits of clothing if you purchase it with karma.

Some people don't really want to unlock other species besides say 1, and then reach a point where they have karma, but not a whole lot to spend it on. Cosmetic things you can unlock with karma to add to your Loadouts seems like a thing that would be nice.

Edited September 29, 2019 by BlackDog

[McRamon]

I would like to see some kind of one time use stuff people could spend karma on, so if you have nothing to buy, you could do that. Though its quiet hard to come up with something good, because it should not affect game balance yet there should be a reason for players to buy it for a one use in one round only. 

Like.. a fancy aerography you can apply to a mech when building it, different reskins of antag items to help you with gimmick (soviet space force suits and uniforms for nukies or costumes vendor for wizard, which has all kinds of normal masquerade costumes and masks, but they work as wizard robes and cost karma).

That will help those who have nothing to spend karma on.

[JarlElbow]

I edited the suggestion to mark off my second suggestion, since I realize that the first one is enough to really improve the system. All that's really needed is for people to be able to give out karma more to the people they think deserve it, and not some radical gameplay change.