E-Dagger and Metagaming woes

[AceWhite27]

Ok, so this is a question I would mainly ask admins, but I decided, let's get the word out. I play a lot of QM and when I do in fact get the Syndie antag role, I go with an Energy Dagger or E-Dagger as I call it, for those "stealthy incursions" (don't judge me). But as bad as rain on a sunny day, every time I get those "random checks" from the local security officer every time they question me, "Why do you have a pen? Why is there a pen in your backpack?" and every time they do the old click and now I'm an outed traitor and being dragged to Perma-brig, my questions are, as follows

• Is this metagaming?

and

• If this does happen do I admin help? (for future reference)

No, not calling out any names (you know who you are) but this is mostly a question and it will help me sleep at night,

Thank you. 

[EvadableMoxie]

Sorta... meta-gaming is using information your character would not have, but everyone's characters knows about syndie gear. As such the knowledge that e-daggers exist and are disguised as pens is not meta-gaming.  Thinking it's odd the QM has a pen is sort of meta-gaming but if you're getting searched that heavily there's probably a reason why.  A lot of times it can seem like security is targeting you randomly when in fact someone privately snitched on you, or the AI saw you do something suspicious on camera. 

What I'd recommend is taking the pen out of your PDA and throwing it away, then replacing it with the e-dagger.  

[TommyNom]

I would say if it was on red alert and confirmed syndicate were on the station, you're out of luck.

If they have no other reason to think the Pen is a weapon of some sort, then no I would say that is complete meta-gaming as security shouldn't EXPECT a traitor or any other antag on the station. I'd be severely pissed off for the random search too, but I'm assuming an alert status was on -else why were they searching you?

[ZN23X]

@AceWhite27

Metagaming in the sense of breaking the rules would be obtaining information about the current round from an OOC source.

What you are experiencing with the pensword would be known as using meta knowledge which isn't against the rules. As Moxie mentioned, there aren't any rules on the server restricting antag knowledge; knowledge of thier equipment/capabilities. Each player has to decide for themselves how much they will allow their character to know. IMO some people do go overboard with it (I'd personally never check if your pen is an esword) but some sec players kind of have a scorched earth search everything mindset cuz they HAVE to defeat the antags >.>

Its not breaking a rule and doesn't need to be ahelped tho.

So some meta knowledge to help YOU! I'm pretty sure the pensword can replace the pen in your PDA. I dont know of any sec who check the pen int he PDA ever.  Good luck!

Edited May 1, 2018 by ZN23X

[Tayswift]

Other places to put pens that are inconspicuous: on your ear, or in your clipboard (which would be perfect for QM!)

[Bxil]

If you have an e-dagger or parapen just put it in your PDA. No-one ever checks PDAs.

[SkeletalElite]

I check PDAs I also check for sleepy pens

I even check the notes section of the PDA. I got someone with it once too they put their objectives in there for some reason

Edited May 1, 2018 by SkeletalElite

[ZN23X]

1 hour ago, SkeletalElite said:

I check PDAs I also check for sleepy pens

I even check the notes section of the PDA. I got someone with it once too they put their objectives in there for some reason

Stop trying so hard. I used to try really hard as sec all the time. Led to alot of long boring rounds. Allow something interesting to happen.

Mostly only newbie antags make stupid mistakes that make them easy to catch, give them a chance to play and learn without using every trick in the book to end thier round.

[SkeletalElite]

21 minutes ago, ZN23X said:

Stop trying so hard. I used to try really hard as sec all the time. Led to alot of long boring rounds. Allow something interesting to happen.

 Mostly only newbie antags make stupid mistakes that make them easy to catch, give them a chance to play and learn without using every trick in the book to end thier round.

I dont do in depth searches (like PDA and all) on random searches. Only people in processing who have evidence that would likely result in them being permad or otherwise anyways

[ZN23X]

Good on ya then

Apologies for coming on so hard.

[Kyet]

Remove pen from PDA.

Place e-dagger/pen into your PDA.

Discard spare pen.

Problem solved.

[tiredbum]

Why is meta knowledge not against the rules. That seems like an open door for players to rules lawyer meta gaming 

[necaladun]

18 minutes ago, tiredbum said:

Why is meta knowledge not against the rules. That seems like an open door for players to rules lawyer meta gaming 

Firstly, it's not meta knowledge to know about things security are briefed on. Every TSA agent knows about terrorists and shoe bombs, ofc NT would know about the Syndicate and e daggers.

Secondly, actually enforcing what every character is supposed to know is bloody hard. Unless it's canon that everyone is brainwashed between shifts, then who is to say my character hasn't worked with the syndicate before (esp if a collab), arrested them before when working as sec officer, or just overheard them talking? 

If we wanted proper "stealth" items, then mechanically restricting it is the best idea.

 

[tiredbum]

2 hours ago, necaladun said:

Firstly, it's not meta knowledge to know about things security are briefed on. Every TSA agent knows about terrorists and shoe bombs, ofc NT would know about the Syndicate and e daggers.

Secondly, actually enforcing what every character is supposed to know is bloody hard. Unless it's canon that everyone is brainwashed between shifts, then who is to say my character hasn't worked with the syndicate before (esp if a collab), arrested them before when working as sec officer, or just overheard them talking? 

If we wanted proper "stealth" items, then mechanically restricting it is the best idea.

 

I dunno man the way you say it sounds like an excuse for valid hunting. Maybe if tatorgear was ID locked and could only be found out if it was ran through a destructive analyser it would be a different story. But right now a sec officer randomly stripping crew and activating every item looking for "stealth" gear doesn't make it "stealth" gear

[Benjaminfallout]

Just now, tiredbum said:

"But right now a sec officer randomly stripping crew and activating every item looking for "stealth" gear..."

I've never had my PDA's pen checked.

I've never had my brown non-stop shoes checked.

I sure as hell have never had my magic color changing jumpsuit checked.

I have only had my magic Infinite Power Glove checked once.

And on top of that I rarely see my cardboard boxes being checked.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

[Malphystoh]

People always check my PDA pen >.< or just steal your headset. it helps to have a good stash place. Or if you think they are gonna search ya. Well time to go give them some pain. Run like hell. Drop water behind you. Then Edagger them down. That'l teach em to rando search :) 

[tiredbum]

49 minutes ago, Benjaminfallout said:

I've never had my PDA's pen checked.

I've never had my brown non-stop shoes checked.

I sure as hell have never had my magic color changing jumpsuit checked.

I have only had my magic Infinite Power Glove checked once.

And on top of that I rarely see my cardboard boxes being checked.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

I'm happy for you to not experience these things, but like others are commenting here, it happens. It goes with a player complaint I made not too long ago. At some point, what someone is allowed to know has to have some limit

[davidchan]

Someone needs to code a false bottom internals box that can hide 1-2 tiny objects in it and requires a specific emote or programmable action to view the hidden inventory, if sec wants to metagame that and go through a few dozen possible emotes/item combos to find the item, let them waste their time.

[SkeletalElite]

3 hours ago, davidchan said:

Someone needs to code a false bottom internals box that can hide 1-2 tiny objects in it and requires a specific emote or programmable action to view the hidden inventory, if sec wants to metagame that and go through a few dozen possible emotes/item combos to find the item, let them waste their time.

*macros every emote and does it all in 20 seconds.

[ZN23X]

4 hours ago, davidchan said:

Someone needs to code a false bottom internals box that can hide 1-2 tiny objects in it and requires a specific emote or programmable action to view the hidden inventory, if sec wants to metagame that and go through a few dozen possible emotes/item combos to find the item, let them waste their time.

Going by the sec players that do the "perform surgery to check if they have implants" shit I wouldn't be surprised if those same sec players are just like "replace thier internals box with a new one just to be safe" XD

[Tomite]

I would like to say that most of the time your being "randomly searched" it's really not all that random you are likely already set to arrest you were probably spotted doing something for example the AI or a coworker saw something suspicious and they inform sec so now sec knows to search you and that you may have something. Also most "random searches" are not full blown strip searches it's usually a simple bag check anything more and your likely to just run or attack them. And knowing the syndicate uses gear like Edaggers or Emags is not meta knowledge NT expects you to know about those kinds of things to help enforce space law and keep people safe. Now there's a point to be made about validhunting I personally don't like when it happens but don't mistake patrolling and searching for validhunting that's two very different things.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Tomite
Minor grammar change.

[Bxil]

Random searches are wonderful honestly. I had myself searched thrice under five minutes when I had my own blood on my own hands; I was heading down to dorms bathroom to wash them from the mechanic's office. Sometimes officers should just chill.

One of them came into the toilet while I was cleaning my bloody hands, and says "WHY U WASH UR HANDS?", pointing his taser at me.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Bxil

[Spacemanspark]

That's not an unreasonable reaction. 

[ZN23X]

I was covered in blood and they searched me 4noraisin. Try hards.

[WingedYordle]

8 minutes ago, ZN23X said:

I was covered in blood and they searched me 4noraisin. Try hards.

Would search for just beinf Tetra. Very shady hooman