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maxfromsweden

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Posts posted by maxfromsweden

  1. On 11/19/2022 at 5:28 PM, Gatchapod said:

    We already have people preparing unreasonable self-defense measures even without that. If someone knows they're a target, they'll immediately turn off their suit sensors, grab stunprods, prepare cable cuffs, put on a mask, hide ID and attack absolutely anyone who as much as pulls a pen out on their screen. If they're part of some clique, now they're absolutely inseparable and a poor antag has to fight probably about 4 people to even touch the target.

    This is a potential outcome and a risk yes. I would call it a very low-rp approach to a pretty interesting situation but I agree that it would happen. The point about cliques is not something I had considered and I agree that it would be bad if a clique bonded together to protect one of their own. I have offered other potential outcomes that I think people that RP more would take rather than setting up defenses in an earlier comment but your point still stands.

     

    On 11/19/2022 at 5:28 PM, Gatchapod said:

    Your idea might increase paranoia in theory, but it will not improve quality of the gameplay. It will increase validhunting. It will increase security workload. It will, in fact, remove "assassinations". They'll become more like duels and losing a duel will be a round-ender.

    This is a bit of a slippery slope argument. Whether it will improve the quality of gameplay depens on how you measure it. I have given some suggestions in an earlier post about how it would improve it, but yes it could also be a detriment to gameplay. It could increase validhunting. It may increase security workload. Since most messages would be false positives I wouldn't tell the officers to bother too much if someone is asking them for protection if I was HoS.

    I don't think it will remove assassination. If a player takes a "make a round more interesting" approach to assassination they might think about how to assassinate someone who has been warned. I don't see how it would make assassination dissapear or make it "less interesting" for the antagonist. Some ideas of the top of my head:

    Disguising themselves as someone the victim trust to get them alone, building trust with their victim during the round to move in for a final strike later, cause some sort of public event to draw them out.

    If someone is acting the way you describe, I would (If I had an assassination goal on them) report them to the detective as a missing person. Hopefully they find them, see their greytide-y gear, strip them of it, put them in the brig for a bit, then release them with me waiting nearby.

    On 11/19/2022 at 5:28 PM, Gatchapod said:

    Antagonists are players, too. They don't kill people out of actual malice, but to add drama to the round. I absolutely do not understand why would you want to punish people who actively put effort into making rounds more interesting.

    Antags are players. So are the victims of the assassination. Killing someone could be a dramatic event. It certainly is for the antag but it could very well be an anti-climax for the victim. I think being warned would be more interesting and dramatic for the victim, whether they prepare defenses, make it into more fun RP (which I hope most will do), or don't act at all.

    The antags already receive a LOT of in game tools for having fun. They get unique goals, special mechanics, special allowances in the rules and even an evaluation on their performance at the end as greentext. Consider how much thought and time has gone into improving antags, compared to some jobs on the station and I think it shows who is more likely to have a fun round just based on if they are antag or not. Compare that to the victim of the assassination who has to get by with their job. Getting a warning like this could define the round for them and make it better because it would lead to new situations to RP in, especially if they have a job with lots of free time.

    I don't want to punish people who actively put an effort into making the rounds more interesting. I don't think all people playing antags make the rounds more interesting. I love a good antag who makes their assassination victims feel special. I believe they would be good enough at RP to roll with this change.

  2. Thanks for your thougtful reply!

    14 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    People also don't do this because it's boring for both the antagonist and the person antagonized, fun is the incentive. The most efficient way to do anything is silently, doesn't mean people want to be silent. Also, how else am I supposed to take "To complete their goals, they are not incentiviced do make the victims round "fun" or "interesting". It's just to kill them" as anything but "I don't think they're enjoyable". 

    I think there is a confusion about what incentive means in this case. I agree that all players play this game to have fun and fun is an incentive.

    But FUN is not something you can reward a player with in game. I'm talking about internal incentives (inside the game) where fun is an external incentive (outside of the game).
    To give a few examples:

    Spoiler

    Good example of in game incentive:

    Counter strike. All players play it to have fun, but not all behaviours are incentivized. By incentive, I mean an ingame reward of some sort (Public recognition, persistant scoring system, benefits over other players are some examples). In counter strike, you get put on the scoreboard for kills or bomb planting. Certain actions you take (completing the objectives of the game) is incentivized by the scoreboard at the end. This is an ingame incentive to make you engage in behaviours that the game designers deem you will have most fun performing (inside the game).

    A player could go and do something that is NOT incentivized, like shooting a wall, jumping in a corner or doing parkour on barrels and they can still experience fun, because it's an external reward. The game gives no incentive to do these actions (and in some cases you will be punished) but your external incentive can still make you do them.

    Bad example of in game incentive:

    Dungeons and Dragons tabletop RPG (Older editions): The tabletop RPG which is ALL ABOUT ROLEPLAYING! Or is it. Earlier editions (I haven't played the latest) did not have an in-game reward for roleplaying. You got XP for kills. So a game might state that it's about roleplaying but it offers no in game reward for doing so, instead giving reward for killing things. There are ways to give rewards for roleplaying and many modern day tabletop games do it but old DnD did not. In this way a game can claim to be about something (Roleplaying) and people can have fun doing that activity but it offers in game incentives for something different (Killing enemies).

    So when I state that "To complete their goals, they are not incentivized do make the victims round "fun" or "interesting". It's just to kill them"  I mean that there is no in-game incentive for the antags to perform advanced forms of assassinations that are more complex than just silently killing someone. Some people will still find elaborate assassinations more fun (me included) but there is no in-game incentive to perform them.

     

    14 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

     This game is entirely roleplay focused, the incentive is that it's fun for both people involved. Clicking on the 2D spaceman is boring without anything to back that up, some green text at the end of the game means literally nothing, it's the roleplay that revolves around it that makes it fun.
     

    I'm actually glad you bring this up since I'm also unclear about what I mean about the incentive. The incentive for Antags to perform the goal is the greentext. As you say, it's meaningless, which I agree with. However, it is still a scoreboard. People will want to complete their goals and get on it, regardless that you and I find it meaningless. In the same way the scoreboard in CS is fundamentally meaningless, the greentext is also meaningless but both are incentives for a player of the game to perform certain actions. An antag does not get extra greentext for making it fun or interesting for the player. They only get a reward for performing their goals, nothing more.

    I agree with your points about roleplaying but inside of the game, there is no incentive for an Antag to roleplay. I do have ideas for how this could be done, as I'm sure you do, but that's for another thread.

     

    14 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    I know what you're saying, what I'm saying is that it's going to make the round less fun for everyone who gets it. You're not gonna sit there and do nothing, especially if it's a new player who gets it. Also, you should actually detail implementation first and formost, especially if it deals with a low chance like that.
    Also that chance is way too low.

    I understand that you feel it won't be as fun. I disagree. I can't predict what everyone will do but as you say, they will do SOMETHING. I'm not sure what it would be. Some, like you say, would probably take actions to protect themselves. Others probably wouldn't. Some might start preparing for the case that they might die suddenly by saying goodbye to friends and family. Someone might start a support group for those that expects they would die. Someone might talk to the chaplain because they fear death.

    Those are some of the things I would do if I got such a text.

    This will lead to more interactions which I would say lead to more fun.

    Regarding the details of this suggestion, it's just an idea, which I doubt will be implemented. But you never know what an idea could lead to. Maybe someone will read it and have their own idea and make something off it in a completely different forms. I doubt my idea will be implemented and that's fine.

     

    14 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    Other people certainly will, and what would you do if you got this message? Game mechanics shouldn't be designed specifically for your enjoyment, you need to consider other people.

    Like I wrote above, I wouldn't do anyting to protect myself. I know the chance would be low and I would create more interactions out of it. Besides the ideas above I would tell my colleagues in the department that I got the text. If I played one of my more comedic characters I would post over comms like "I've been threatened to death, need bodyguard. Pays well". Would be hilarious if the antag responded and killed me. Or I might devise some inefficient but stupidly funny defense.

    But that's me. I wrote more regarding how other people may react above. If a lot of people get scared and stop working, they could see the Psychiatrist, IAA could investigate them for not following SOP etc. Someone who's a station tough guy might call out their antag to meet them someplace to fight it out mano-a-mano in a fair fight.

    These are things that could happen. Also, nothing could happen. Also, everyone could rush for defenses. I don't know.

     

    14 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    I read this and the first thing that comes to mind is "You weren't actually expecting feedback, were you?" You need to consider that other people will see the post and think "Ah fuck I'm a target I need self defense!", which is going to end in 30 people with prods because possible antagonists could be out to get them. Or you make the chance so low the feature becomes totally worthless unless you don't get it, and you get the "yay I'm not a target pass" for a round.

    I do think your feedback is really good and I'm happy you've replied. It's given me some good RP ideas if nothing else. As I wrote in the paragraph above, I have considered somethings people could do. Maybe all 30 people would go and defend themselves but I don't think so. I know several people who wouldn't, but use it as a chance to roleplay new situations.

    I agree that the exact percentage will be a fine balance. I have no idea what percentage would be appropriate either so you're correct in that it could lead to the outcome you describe.

     

    14 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    How does an antagonist approach a target if they know someone is coming otherwise? They're certainly not going into another room with you, you could be a antag! The only option you have is to beat them into the dirt unceremoniously, which is a terrible payoff. Not to mention you're not getting any payoff if you're not actually a target.

    Not sure. When I mathed this out using the fun equation in my first post I did note that antags could have less fun. But the antags are FAR fewer than the general crew making it a net positive.

    I still think an antag could get into a room with someone. Might be harder to earn their trust but it could still work. I'm sure it would work on me since I would enjoy the RP. Dying to someone who put in the effort would be great.

     

    14 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    This is going to result in nothing good, 18 people are gonna go get stuff to defend themselves. There are also far more than 2 targets a shift. Either this does nothing or it does too much.

    Again, it might happen as you say but I don't think so. I don't think it's as binary as you describe. Some people will RP with it. Some will find some way to reduce the risk of dying. Some will do nothing. It will most likely come down to the individual and RP (hopefully) rather than people trying to survive.

     

    14 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    The objection you referenced has like a ~1/5 chance of being rolled, the vast majority of objectives will still be kill. Get that stuff set in stone, we can't judge your idea properly otherwise.
     

    It's fine, you seem to be able to give me feedback on the idea very well even though I haven't specified it as much. I think it's good that I can modify it based on your feedback. But as I mentioned above, I doubt it will go anywhere.

     

    14 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    So, you're arguing in favor of a feature which is supposed to make you tense... by removing tension? Also, you're not the main character, sometimes you die, and die horribly!
     

    I don't see how this removes tension. In my world, getting a text message saying that you will be assassinated creates more tension within me than receiving no such message. Compound this by a lot of people receiving that message, a lot of people would feel more tension. People would probably get used to it after a while though.

    Yeah I'm generally fine with dying, as I wrote earlier in this post, I would be happy to die with a roleplaying antag. It just feels unsatisfying to die without any warning which is my opinion of course.

     

    15 hours ago, maxfromsweden said:
    19 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    Don't put something like this in any proposal, the only thing I can take from this is that you're willing to manipulate data if given the opportunity 

    This comes out of nowhere and it actually makes me a bit sad. I'm really sorry you feel this way and I don't really understand how you get to the point that I would be "willing to manipulate data". It's just a suggestion, it has no ill intention or even power to change anything.

    14 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

     Then tell me what this is supposed to mean, the only way to take it is "If you judge this the way I want you to, it's good." This is a red flag and a half currently and I suggest you elaborate on it
     

    Sure. I put the whole quote ladder in for context. When you said "Don't put something like this in any proposal, the only thing I can take from this is that you're willing to manipulate data if given the opportunity", it made me sad because it felt like a judgement of my character based on my post. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that I'm "willing to manipulate data if given the opportunity" but it sounds like I would act with malicious intent.

    You might find the idea completely stupid, and that's fine. It's not in the game and I doubt it will be based on your critique. But inferring some sort of malicious intent on my part, only based on this post, made me sad because I'm just trying to help out. It felt too personal for what was just a suggestion I wrote.

    Maybe that's not want you meant and I misunderstood. If so I apologize.

    When I wrote "This comes out of nowhere and it actually makes me a bit sad. I'm really sorry you feel this way and I don't really understand how you get to the point that I would be "willing to manipulate data". That made me sorry because I have no plans on manipulating any data and I didn't understand how you reached the conclusion that I would based on the post. Again, it felt like a negative judgement of my character when my intention here is just to provide ideas.

     

    14 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    So, you found a fun gimmick you use as an antagonist? Great. Don't force that on to other people who might not want to do it. You've also asked if I think it would be more intresting, I say no, this would be absolutely annoying at best, validhunting encouraging at worst.

    I think we agree to disagree on this point.

  3. 2 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    This is not true
    Assassination objectives can be used to create very enjoyable situations, provided that the antagonist can be put in a position to do that. Cling specifically struggles to do this, but vamp and traitor have many different options. What matters is more that way that you're killed, not the act of being killed. @henri215is a great example of someone who can make kill objectives fun.

    I think we're on the same side of this. I think you misunderstood what I wrote in my post. I'm not saying assassinations CAN'T be enjoyable and fun for both parties, just that there is no incentive to do so. It's more efficient to just stay under the radar, kill silenty and interact as little as possible with your victim. This is what the current system incentivizes.

    People may argue that an antagonists role is to make the game fun and interesting (as per the rules) but there is really no ingame incentive to do that.

    I don't enjoy player elimination as a game mechanic which is what this thread is about.

     

    3 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    I am fully against this for the following reasons
    - If you get this you are encouraged to stop playing the game. Getting a message like this will result in the people who got this instantly going to cryo, or going to security demanding protection.
    - This entirely forces antagonists to get things done quickly, if you get "the funny message" that just means you have been given a reason to refuse roleplay with people in fear they will end your round. Antagonists aren't going to "be nice" when they get this, they're gonna be forced to go full on unga mode.

    Just to be clear, I want to warn the victims + some other random people that are not victims. So if Pete is the target, Pete, Lisa, Todd, Aleister, Arma, Frank, Rufus, and Josh get the same message, even though only Pete is the target. I figure it should be around 10% likely (example number could be higher or lower) of you actually being the victim if you get the message.

    - I personally don't like being the target of assassination, but I wouldn't stop playing if I knew the message was most likely untrue.

    - If most people rp:ed their assassinations, I don't think my suggestion adds anything, but it's my experience that people don't, for reasons I've stated above. If an antag is already planning on killing a person without RP, I don't believe this message will change their approach, because they are already using the most efficient approach.

     

    3 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    It'll be near fucking impossible if they don't go loud instantly and .357 the person down(or similar). This does not fix the issue presented, it makes it way worse.

    - I disagree that it would make it impossible. 

    - I do belive this takes the edge off the feeling of being "randomly killed" for no reason which is a feeling I've had (and I belive the thread starter) has had many times. When you get assassinated, you received a warning earlier in the game. There was setup for you being targeted, and being attacked is the payoff.

    3 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    - All victims would get protection or leave the game, and it's not fair to the antagonist
    - People who don't get the message won't give a fuck and can simply assume they aren't affected by antagonists. The people who do get it would do the above.
    - "It's harder so it's better", this doesn't increase the skill level or anything, just forces people to go loud.

    - If there are 2 assassination targets, there would be around 20 people getting the warning. I don't see how they can be efficiently protected. Furthermore, I don't think security would waste their time when 90% of the messages are fake anyways. They will most likely have more pressing concerns.

    - This is a good point, but I think this only goes for assassination targets. Objectives such as "make sure they don't leave the station" wouldn't be affected. Or not all assassination victims have to get the alert. This is just a suggestion, the specifics are not set in stone.

    - I don't think it's better because it makes it harder for the antags. I think it's better because it takes the edge of being randomly murdered without warning as a (usually) defenseless victim.

    3 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    Don't put something like this in any proposal, the only thing I can take from this is that you're willing to manipulate data if given the opportunity 

    This comes out of nowhere and it actually makes me a bit sad. I'm really sorry you feel this way and I don't really understand how you get to the point that I would be "willing to manipulate data". It's just a suggestion, it has no ill intention or even power to change anything.

    If I play antag I actually enjoy stealing someone elses PDA and warning my target of assassination. In my experience they've enjoyed it and it feels a lot better for me than just randomly killing someone. If we circle back to the top of the post, wouldn't this be a way more interesting experience for the victim than just randomly being attacked?

  4. On 10/31/2022 at 6:21 AM, Veterankyl said:

    I was going for something else when I brought up greentext. I feel that, although an antag doesn't need to achieve it, it still encourages antags to 'win', which in turn encourages taking the safe or most meta method of assassination, that being to round remove a person. The need to use the best method give no room for creativity to the antag, and the unlikelihood of surviving without serious metagaming makes it unfun for the victim.

    You hit the nail on the head with this. I've been thinking about this problem quite a bit. I don't think player elimination is a good thing but as it stands it looks as it's not being removed. What you're describing is the best strategy for the antags to play their game. To complete their goals, they are not incentiviced do make the victims round "fun" or "interesting". It's just to kill them.

    The solution I've come up with is to WARN THE VICTIMS BEFOREHAND. They can get a PDA-Spam message like "You've been identified as a potential target for assassination by the syndicate. Watch out." Obviously, you should send this out to some other non-victims aswell so no one knows if it's true or not. Also the exact wording and source of the message can be figured out.

    Talk about increasing suspense and paranoia for the victim (and even the non victims that just get it for spam). It will probably be slightly harder for the antags, but their goal is to make a round fun and interesting right?

    If you measure the net result of this change, I believe it would be a net positive.

    • All victims would be "prepared" to be murdered and it would seem "fairer", since they knew about it beforehand. (Increased fun for victims)
    • Even non victims would be afraid and more paranoid, even though they are not in any more danger than anyone else. (Increased fun for non victims)
    • Antags could get it slightly harder. (Potentially decreased fun for antagonist)

    Measuring it like this, you have more people benefitting from this change than people not benefitting from it.

  5. I like how you're expanding on the idea! Seems like you're putting a lot of thought into this.

     

    3 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    Team specific objectives: Objectives that require a two person act to do (A few ideas will be stated)

    Call in/Revengeance: TeamOp 1 Spawns with the device, TeamOp 2 spawns with the key and activation code. Objective is to find a location and activate the device with your brother, both of you need to turn the key together. After a short delay, an annoucement is sent out stating the location of the device on station alongside a GPS signal being set out. If the device is activated and not deactivated for a minute straight, you call in a random midround antagonist.

    Sounds very sound from a game design perspective. Forcing the two players to actually work as a team is great.

     

    I like the activation process of Call in/Revengeance, but think the actual effect is a bit strange, considering you earlier stated it wasn't a high impact antagonist. Furthermore, all of these options:

    3 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    A single princess of terror (Objectives given: Protect Teamop1 and Teamop2.)
    A blob core which is unable to split (Objectives given: Protect Teamop1 and Teamop2.)
    2 Randomly assigned Nukie module cyborgs along with a cyborg conversion machine (Objectives given: Protect Teamop1 and Teamop2, convert 3 people to cyborgs)
    A laughter demon (Objectives given: Protect Teamop1 and Teamop2. Make 5 people laugh)
    A revenant (Objectives given: Protect Teamop1 and Teamop2.)

    Seem to directly contradict:

    3 hours ago, Generaldonothing said:

    When you bring three traitors into the mix their abilities to solve fuckups increases severly, EX: Player A gets stunned, player B helps player A, player C is able to fend off player D, player C gets hurt, Player A helps them ect:. In a game that is rather punishing, almost anyone is at a nearly unwinable disadvantage against a 3 person if they do not meet their numbers. 

    Since you're basically getting a third teammember, although you have to work quite a lot for them. You also get a teammember that is arguably stronger than a regular blood brother.

    How about just having the activation be the goal in itself? The reward is that you accomplish your objective. You don't need an extra incentive for that.

  6. While I like the idea of making two antagonists working together, how would you design to make that the most viable strategy?

    If a noob is paired with a pro, the best way to accomplish your goals would be to let the pro do them while the noob stays under the radar.

    What mechanical incentive is there to actually work together?

    Something like a bonus when they are together would be such an incentive.

    Another option would be that they have a symbiotic relationship like the abductors. Each of the brothers has to perform certain actions to actually accomplish their goals, so one can't remain passive.

  7. Thanks for the responses everyone! I've taken some time to respond to everyone.

    On 4/9/2022 at 4:26 PM, Frank said:

    Ok so I will be a little harsh here and tell you how I feel about this. Friendly gestures become pointless when someone has to tell you to do them. Being nice and respectful to other people should be common sense. I dont think recieving a task about "make x feel like they are in Sweden" is going to make anyone want to do that.

    While its a wholesome idea, I think its still bad. But then again, I'm one of those people who hate being told what to do. 

    Thanks for your input! Hopefully I can explain my reasoning a bit more clearer.

    This is a sentiment that is repeated in several posts and I find it interesting. I don't understand how you're forced to perform this goal. There is zero consequence if you choose not to pursue it. Hence, you're not forced.

    On the other hand, if this goal is presented to you and you choose to pursue it, you have chosen to be kind. I do understand hating the sentiment of being told what to do. But just like traitor objectives, no one is forcing you to do them.

    On 4/9/2022 at 7:36 PM, BlackDog said:

    I like the idea, though not quite in this form.

    More for departmental objectives, like say: as the chef cook X meals, serve X meals, prepare a dinner for  command etc

    Thank you for your input. I would love departmental objectives.

    Compared to departmental objectives this feature would be way easier to code and implement. You can take the goals as written, write the code that the goal is displayed for (X numbers) of players per round, and thats it. Departmental objectives would require more coding work (sorting each player by their department) and (figuring out the actual goals which are department specific). This suggestion is a step towards department goals, and qutite a small one.

    On 4/10/2022 at 11:14 AM, BottomQuark said:

    Yeah that's a problem. People love greentext and we know it. Without greentext only few will care about such objectives. Is is that bad? I don't think so.

    Thanks for your well thought out post!

    This is not the topic for it, but I do think greentext feature is detrimental to actual roleplaying as it stands now. Considering the amount of creativity people display in this game for no other reward than "I wanted to build/create/rp it" that is lost after the round, I do think there is space for goals without greentexting. If you wanted to make the feature more complicated, you could add a "Goal completed feature" that would poll the target player asking them if the other player completed the goal. But again, it would be extra work for what I would consider be a needless scoreboard.

    On 4/10/2022 at 11:14 AM, BottomQuark said:

    Is too vague. Making feel someone like a hero can mean a lot, and doesn't really give someone an idea how to achive it. I personally would be confused with what to do. Objectives for players have to be plain and simple to grasp, like "Create teleportation pads between bridge and head office". You see it and you know exactly how to do it. That is not meant to offend anyone but people are easily confused with vague objectives. The more complicated objective, the less people will actually know what to do with them, ESPECIALLY the new people.

    I do agree that the goals could be better. Like all suggestions, this is a first draft. I would argue that a goal such as "Make sure X gets their favorite food" would be an easier objective to accomplish for a new player than most traitor objectives. But some of the written goals can be re-phrased for clarity and more intersting interactions.

    On 4/10/2022 at 11:14 AM, BottomQuark said:

    I'm not gonna go through the whole list, but most of these points would give you a task that is quite hard to complete and already requires some creativity. The problem is you should not force people to be creative, but convince them to.

    Yes, some of them would be hard to complete. Some of them are maybe even impossible. As I responded to @Frank, there is no force at all. Just like traitor objectives, you're offered a suggested goal. If you choose to pursue it, great. If not, no problem.

    On 4/10/2022 at 11:14 AM, BottomQuark said:

    Also consider other players. Not everyone wants someone to interact with them. If someone got a /quest/ "Bring Machinist of the Milky Way their favorite drink" that would be nice, but then if someone got the task "Make sure Machinist of the Milky Way has the best shift ever" I would feel a little bit awkward if someone was just following me and try to forcefully make things well for me. ((Kinda bad example, but I hope you get my point)).

    I do get your point. Some may not be in the mood and if you are actively annoying them, you're most likely not fulfilling your objective. In your specific example I would personally just ask that character  "Hey, what would make this shift the best ever for you?" they may say "You leaving me the hell alone." - Mission accomplished. Or they may offer a constructive path. Or they may not respond at all.

    As I wrote in the OP "The journey itself is the goal here, not the destination."

     

  8. At the start of the shift (a handful) people get random goals that are positive and helpful. They get another player as a target and has to do something nice to them. The nice thing is defined in the goal.

    Could be an Opt in system if people think it would be annoying. Could also be expanded into role specific goals.

     

    Why it's good for the game?

    It creates happiness. When successfully executed as intended, someone will be happy and they will hopefully have a cool memory.

    It creates interaction. The randomness in assigning the target player leads to interaction between people who may not otherwise interact. This is also a net positive. You may meet someone really cool this way! Also has a chance to break up meta gangs.

     

    But people can already do this! They don't need to be told what to do!

    That's true. Some people will come up with this stuff by themselves. But a lot of other people won't. Some people will have trouble coming up with unique ideas for this. Sometimes, it's just nice to be told what to do so you don't have to think about it. If someone doesn't do their goal, there is no problem with that.

     

    Well what if people don't do it? 

    Then we are where we are right now. If someone chooses not to engage with the system, it's not harming the round in any way. 

     

    Problems with it?

    Probably impossible to code to check for succesful achievment of the goal. So no greentext. However, getting on the scoreboard isn't the goal here. It's to make someone happy. The journey itself is the goal here, not the destination.

    Someone needs to code it obviously.

     

    Example goals:

    • Make X look like a hero
    • Surprise X with a personal gift
    • Make sure X gets a medal/promotion
    • Make a unique drink for X
    • Build a shrine to player X
    • Make sure X is featured in the newspaper
    • Make sure X gets their favorite food
    • Make sure sees their rival/enemy/frenemy embarrassed
    • Get X their favorite book/item
    • Give X the best compliment.
    • Get X to partake in a scientific experiment.
    • Show X a special part of the station.
    • Make a special joke for X.
    • Make sure X has the best shift ever
    • Like 1
  9. A bit late to the dinner here but I'll chime in.

    From a gameplay design perspective, as others have already mention, why does a support role, not meant for fighting, have a deadly weapon? It makes no sense to me.

    Sure, it's a reference to Dirty Harry but.. does anyone want Dirty Harry as a detective on Paradise? The role as it's designed on paradise seems to be directly against this since it's about solving crimes, not fighting, like regular security.

    If they need a gun, how about a simple disabler, or a small laser gun like the HoP:s?

    I really enjoy playing detective and after not realising the bullets were more deadly, I completely blasted a guy who went into crit and almost died. Now I'm super hesitant to use it even in dangerous situations since I may end someones round. Now, firing it at all is super risky. The anger if you hit a bystander is very real.

    If the gun needs to remain in the game for some reason, put it in the armory along with the rest of the lethal weapons.

  10. I don't see this as an important feature, but if you wanted to do it more easily, wouldn't it be enough just to create a chess window where both players can move the pieces however they want and display the result to your opponent? I.e no checking that a move is legitimate or not, just an interface where you can move chess pieces.

    So yes, you could theoretically cheat and move your pieces wherever, but just like in real life, this would be frowned upon.

    This could also lead to playing interesting chess variants like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_chess

  11. On 10/7/2021 at 1:16 AM, Agatasa said:

    Running that scam was tons of fun. I messaged literally every PDA, I got the details of about five people and other interactions from about a dozen more.

    But Todd Rutabaga was the funniest one.

    Something so simple can lead to amazing things! Was one of my most fun and memorable rounds. Thank you so much!

  12. Some of the mixed adventures of Todd Rutabaga, the loveable idiot HoP.

    The one where he accidentally confuses one grey with another, leading to being called racist.

    172703921_Rutabarascist1.thumb.jpg.dc673524eefc464c78f5bbca64f51633.jpg

    1210827474_Rutabagarascist2.thumb.jpg.2e7234ad131608c5e134e2ea6f295b5e.jpg

    A great job interview with a potential miner!

    398951565_Hiredbaldy.thumb.jpg.557fe81303777fbeae1d26c523bed8e7.jpg

    A tough interview with a potential Cargo Worker!

    148082408_Cargojobinterview.thumb.jpg.bc8dd9dfe18da717dbbc42a3485651b0.jpg

    And the Fax sent to CentComm when he was tricked out of his whole life savings but had a shot at making it big with a clever investment!

    1291775663_Salaryadvancenment.thumb.jpg.deda66dcc47b44b17ec60df663c61562.jpg

     

    • Like 6
    • honk 1
    • dead 1
  13. I think this is a super interesting suggestion. I agree that general comms is a pretty inefficient way to communicate due to it's general-ness. Removing it would remove the easiest way to communicate to the whole station and OP suggests some good replacements. I'll put some counterarguments to the points already put forward.

     

    Lack of communication/interaction with people

    I think this proposal will force MORE interaction with people rather than less. Instead of just being able to shout out whatever you want over comms, you have to communicate with the right people who have access to all comms to deliver your message. That's one extra step of communication and one extra step of interaction.

    I don't know how you guys play this game, but I don't sit and read comms that much. I usually have better things to do. If one of my highlights are triggered then obviously you gotto read it, but otherwise it's mostly empty chatter.

    To respond to the argument of it being harder to coordinate with people I would bring up the following points:

    Use the PDA - I find this way more effective to contact people than writing in Comms. I use this way more than regular comms these days.

    Get radio with right access - If you have some project spanning several departments and you need contact, you should be able to get a radio with access to the proper channels.

    Get Heads to Deliver important messages - If you have something you want announced to the station, like a cool bar setup, basketball court or sushi bar, contact a Head and ask them to announce it. You could also ask the AI since they're usually forced to do it. This would actually add a level of interaction, instead of you shouting it out over comms.

    New "Radio host" job - This is a more RP focused option, and something I would personally love. A karma role in which you get access to the NT radio station where you can host a radio show. You can deliver messages to a special radio channel everyone can listen, but not communicate on. That way everyone can opt out if you're bad.

     

    Transponder instead of Emergency callouts

    I think this is a great idea. This is how I envision it working: You hit the button, you get the option to provide a message, you hit send, everyone nearby is alerted that you have called security maybe by the PDA clearly stating "Silent Alarm activated". Warden/HoS or sec officer is pinged over PDA with the messsage but ALSO their location, based of their suitsensors. This means the Warden/HoS can PDA the victim back if they are lacking details or it seems there is time for it.

    Who gets alerted could depend on the Alert level. Warden/HoS can get the messages on all levels then delegate to the officers. On a higher alert level, the whole sec channel could be pinged with the message.

    You could extend this by having some sort of communicator role, who's single job is to work as a 911 operator. I imagine this could also be a security Officer who may have been harmed in the line of duty or similar.

    11 minutes ago, MarsMond said:

    With something like the transponder, antags may also be unable to tell whether they are busted or not, as they have no access to the alert channel. It would also need to alert engineering, else that plasma fire the activation was about won't be extimguished, and sec and med can only watch the person burning to a crisp until one atmos tech actually replies to a PDA message, gears up, and comes all the way from atmos to toxin, where the fire has now burned everything and solved itself.

    To respond to this. The Transponder could clearly state when it's activated, alerting Antags. Regarding alerting engineering, you can deliver a message with the transponder if you want, such as "Plasma Fire" then the person pinged will have to get an engineer.

    7 hours ago, Mitchs98 said:

    The ideas proposed in regards to the emergency channel thing is relatively interesting, but is very likely to be unmonitored or missed. People already miss enough information as it is already with PDA and such, we don't need it to be even harder for security to communicate and respond to call outs. Especially given with the emergency thing it would be unlikely for security to be able to respond to pretty much anything in a timely manner.

    A specific, targeted Alert message, delivered straight to a Sec officer/Warden/HoS with as much information as could be delivered, would be way more effective than shouting it out over comms and hoping someone will detect it in the clutter. I don't see why they would missed more than the current messages. I would even argue that why a lot of this information is missed is due to Common being so messy and people automatically filtering it out.

    Nerfing/Boosting Antags

    I don't have a lot to add here, I just find it funny that some thing it will nerf antags and others think it will boost them. Personally, I think trying to balance a game such as this where skill disparity is so EXTREMELY WIDE for equal chance of winning is impossible. Balance in this case should be towards creating interaction and emergence, not winning. With that standpoint, I think this idea as balanced towards interaction and emergence as the usual comms.

    7 hours ago, Mitchs98 said:

    Not to mention the effect this will have antag balance-wise, which is something I disagree with on this front entirely. It would be a massive boon to antagonists that I'm not sure is needed or warranted. That said my main opposition to this is the above, rather than anything to do with antagonists(despite that being a pretty big reasoning behind it myself).

     

    12 minutes ago, MarsMond said:

    It will also arguably nerf antags. They won't be able to hear where their target is, like a miner asking for RnD to be manned. Would need to keep watching some crew monitor or GPS for them, to even know whether they are on station or not, and miners don't necessarily set their sensors due to the GPS, which notifies both ways.

     

  14. I love this.

    Here is a cardgame I just came up with.

     Glory to Nanotrasen - A card game for new employees

    This game was designed by Nanotrasen to teach new employees the right way to interact with people on the station.

    Setup: Shuffle a deck of card and every player takes one.

    A turn: A randomly chosen player reveals their card. Each other player needs to react appropriately to the card (based the list). The one who reacts the slowest is out. If someone reacts the wrong way they are also out. When only one player remains, they are the winner and everyone else has to pay them part of their salary (or buy them a drink).

    What the different cards Represents and how you should react if you see them:

    Suits are ignored

    Ace: Traitor - shout "SYNDICATE AGENT!"

    Any number from 2-9: Tourist - Say "Welcome to Nanotrasen!"

    10: The Janitor - say " Clean up medbay!" (Can also be another location)

    Jack: The clown - Honk your nose

    Queen: The Captain - "Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening Sir" Depending on time of day.

    King: John Nanotrasen himself - Say "GLORY TO NANOTRASEN"

    This partygame can probably be played in the bar really easily.

     

    Roleplaying games

    Another option would be to import some ACTUALLY PLAYABLE roleplaying games (DnD is a horrible roleplaying game to play on paradise. Too slow and too crunchy). This would require no coding, only teaching people (who are smart enough to learn this annoyingly complex computer game) a really simple roleplaying system.

    Something WAY more simple and WAY more playable than D&D  would be the following:

    Roll for shoes: https://rollforshoes.com/

    Super simple D6 system where your character starts pretty worthless but then evolves into a unique character based on their actions. You can set this up in 2 minutes. Your character starts with only one stat. Would be super easy to implement a session.

    Honey Heist: https://gshowitt.itch.io/honey-heist

    Here is the plot:

    1) You have a complex Heist that requires precise timing.

    2) You are a GODDAMN BEAR.

    A bit more complex, but way less complex than D&D.

     

     

     

    • Like 3
  15. IC, I find bridge hoboing extremely annoying, both that people who do it think that it's allright and that people in command who don't do it also think it's allright. People who have a job should be working or at least be pretending to work. They should not be resting in front of the bridge. I always tell people this IC.

    For me, as others have mentioned, the reason bridge hoboing exists, is because the bridge is at the centre of the station. Since Hoboing is extremely passive, you want as much entertainment as possible come to you without moving, staying in the spot with the most movement makes sense.

    If the bridge swapped places with the library for instance, I doubt hoboing would be that much of a problem. It would be too much out of the way. Instead the library would be the place to hobo.

     

  16. The Great Nanotrasen Extortion

    Alex Caine, wannabe hustler has been hired by the Syndicate to kill Anton Fasani, make sure Edroy Denidard doesn't leave the ship and to die a glorious death. Since he can't fight or kill people himself, he goes about it a different way.

    Step 1 (Not pictured but succesful)

    Break into the vault, steal everything and hide it in a secret location that no one will accidentally find. Tense but successful.

    Step 2.

    Finding a safe way to communicate with command without revealing my identity. Also luckily acquire my partner in crime, Beepi, the pAI. I wouldn't have managed to pull through without you. I bartered with Bubblegum who would get me PDA from a third party. This made certain that only Bubblegum could reveal that I was the vaulthief, but that was allright, since I knew he was a vampire.1271357499_Gettingbeepimypartnerincrime.thumb.jpg.9e3c72cdfa443d71830a62a91172701a.jpg

    287721360_GettingasparePDA.thumb.jpg.d445e463844a69eb927b302754f6ea39.jpg

    Step 3

    Proving myself as the thief and establishing negotiations. The blueshield proved themselves very competent at negotiations. The NTrep, who was the key to my plan, less so.Negotiations.thumb.jpg.c6bc7b6f3dfe1762d65d004d0768aaf5.jpg1169107487_Morenegotiations.thumb.jpg.c5d2161318121e8d92302b86b1cb8dfb.jpg

    I was betting on the NTrep alerting CC about their lost valuables, specifically the important documents in the vault, CC would then happily but discreetly order the execution or "accidental" death of Anton Fasani.

    Step 4

    I was able to get in contact with the captain (at least I thought so) and we went back and forth a bit over the PDA. I got the feeling he was stalling though. He could grant me to meet the blueshield staying and maybe send the officer into dangerous situations. I felt that they were stalling so I was planning a BOLD MOVE. ERT had shown up. If anyone was desperate to get the valuable documents back for Nanotrasen, it would be those guys, right?

    1742160814_Mymistake.thumb.jpg.b90890b7da4cbb72efca20d4b73fb788.jpg

     

    Step 5

    In my head I saw my plan going like the Kevin Spacey reveal in Seven. But it didn't. The ERT commander cuffed me and said that I shouldn't extort NT. Then they left me in the brig for five minutes. I tried to escape but got clubbed by a drone. And so ended Alex Caine's very bold plan to extort Nanotrasen. Probably the most fun I've ever had as a traitor though. Thanks for everyone who played along!

    389171103_Onshuttle.thumb.jpg.a7fa2a332a95d008cc83ddf1d2fd7361.jpg

    • Like 5
    • bap 1
  17. Clown holding a speeddating event which included customized romantic gifts for all participants. The gifts were weight loss shakes, burnt cigarretts, a bloody photo of a plasmaman, a katana, a toddler and other assorted junk I found laying around.

    Some just came to watch the trainwreck, but ended up participating. Love, after all, is best experienced up close, not at a distance.

     

    Speeddating.thumb.jpg.2a9969715ae4d4908be74622b5145372.jpg

    • Like 4
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