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To be fair, isn't how people feel about the changes part of the feedback and discussion?

What did you re-use them for then? Why were they even removed? They were the only means of reliably treating brute and burn damage if chemistry was entirely inept. Now they've been replaced with single use patches that really do not heal all that much whatsoever. It'll now be even harder, if not impossible, to effectively treat someone heavily damaged. Especially Vox or Slime People. Unless of course the intention was to make them harder to revive while also making it harder to treat others, since you and others are in favor of making them harder/impossible to revive outside of transplanting? I'm not accusing or anything like that, I'm genuinely asking if that was one of the key reasons the kits were removed.

The change is university unpopular, so it will be implemented and the community will have 0 say.

I'm not opting for a poll at all, but to seemingly dismiss feelings about the change as not being part of the discussion or feedback feels a little rash, to me.

A new critical system is on its way that is more involved, chaotic, and engaging to deal with--it's a long-awaited companion for Goonchem. This new system doesn't apply to all races--station races that do not utilize this new system are Diona, Slime People, and IPC; they will die using the old method of blacking out, slowly accumulating damage, then dying. Treating people is basically the same as before, with a few nuanced caveats. You apply patches or advanced trauma/burn kits to heal people, you inject them with chems to heal them, you can throw them in cryo to stabilize them. That said, how people lapse into crit will be fairly different. When your patient hits 0 health, they will lapse into a critical state where they can't see well, their movement can become scrambled, and they fall down a lot. During this time, they can acquire shock. Shock worsens these conditions. If shock is not treated, then the person will start undergoing cardiac failure. Treating shock can be healed by injecting saline or healing the underlying damage and getting their health solidly back into the healthy category. It's recommend you still inject saline as a primary tool, especially if they have heart failure (or you can't treat them in time while you're running to get some other medicines). Cardiac failure is even worse than shock; it'll become even more difficult to breathe, and if left untreated, will result in full out cardiac arrest. Treating cardiac failure is done with atropine or epinephrine. This condition will not go away by merely curing the underlying damage. You must treat it with atropine or epinephrine. Both chems are equally good at treating it; having both in the bloodstream, at once, increases the chances of treating it. Finally is cardiac arrest. When acquired, you'll flop on the ground and rapidly take brain and oxygen damage. Treating cardiac arrest can be done with full size defibs or the new handheld defibs. It it strongly recommended you utilize handheld defibs, as they're specialized in treating cardiac arrest. Death occurs primarily by brain damage; if the brain dies, your patient dies. A few helpful pointers and tips: -STOP RELYING ON CRYO. Cryo just heals damage, but doesn't treat the underlying conditions when someone is in a critical state. Time is your enemy under this new system; it's faster and better to apply patches (or advanced burn/trauma kits) or medicine directly to the patient than to throw them in cryo and wait for it to kick in and their body temperature to be low enough. Cryo should be used to stabilize patients who you don't have time to treat, but it shouldn't be the primary treatment method you rely on. -THERE IS A NEW HANDHELD DEFIB. Hanheld defibs work differently from full size defibs. They do not revive people from the dead. They purely treat patients undergoing cardiac arrest. They can also treat heavy O2 damage, so even if a patient isn't undergoing cardiac arrest, they are still useful for rapidly lowering O2 damage. Full size defibs cannot treat the O2 damage like handheld ones, and have a sizeable delay before activating; it's not recommend you use full size ones unless it's a desperate situation. -PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR HUD. A frowny green face is indicative of viruses; it could also mean they're in shock or undergoing cardiac failure. -CPR CAN SAVE A LIFE. CPR has been buffed dramatically under this system. It heals a significant chunk of O2 damage and completely resets the losebreath timer on a patient. In can really help, in a pinch, when someone is in critical condition. Don't expect it to save someone in full out cardiac arrest though. -Treating patients in deep critical is going to require a broad range of medications. It's strongly recommended you keep saline, epinephrine, mannitol, and salbutamol on you for dealing with deeply critical patients. Handheld defibs can help correct high amounts of O2 damage as can utilizing CPR, but handheld defibs can be unreliable at this task. O2 damage can accumulate incredibly rapidly, leading to a death spiral that will result in the patient's death in no time flat. In some situations, there will be cases where there nothing you can do. Treating a patient's damage is important, but always factor in shock, heart failure, and cardiac arrest into your plan of treating your patient, or else they're going to pay the ultimate price; their death. I'm sure there's more, but this should help you get a good start and help you treat patients on some level. Feel free to ask me any questions though!

I agree. That's why my response on the neuro kits was "If the Medivends have mannitol, I'm not sure why Neuro-kits would be necessary." If Medical vendors already have mannitol pills in them, I am unsure why those kits are necessary.

AS IS TRADITION

Ha! I was the detective that shift! Excellent work! HONK.

We're not interested in peoples general feelings or votes over a few days of a system that's a work in progress. We want feedback and discussion about the specifics of the changes. Not a poll that indicates how people feel.

Alright so let me be more explicit in this and pitch it to you in a way that maintainers are more likely to accept, because it's not a straight buff: Here's what we had on Oracle. https://github.com/OracleStation/OracleStation/blob/2528945aad61c2892652a98da422aba2c562d2d1/code/game/objects/items/miscellaneous.dm#L23-L46 It was a box they spawned with. When they used the box in-hands, it gave them the option of: .38 Mars Special Revolver .45 Enforcer Semi Automatic Pistol Aegis SG7 Laser Gun Once they made their selection, the box disappeared and the item was left in their hands. This actually gave a little bit of personalization and options to blueshields, and it also made it so an antag wasn't always sure what the BS had if they wanted to go after command. Nice little mind game. I think you could do the same sort of deal, except add some sort of BS Krav Maga gloves to the list.

You have to give your players some credit. That other post regarding the PR merge speaks volumes to how the majority feels, yet it seems as though you simply do not care. And now here, when you're the one asking for people to discuss it, you seem to be dismissing genuine criticisms as "sarcasm and passive aggression". If I didn't know any better I'd say you were high on power and ignoring us all in favor of backers. All for the money, as it were. But I do know better, and I've seen better from all the staff on these forums. It does seem we're all on edge, as this is a contentious issue for all of us; players and staff alike. We need to be able to break bread and have a genuine discussion on how the community feels, and what the community wants. And don't be surprised when people get emotional about it. This game provides for some genuinely amazing experiences. So when an update may well result in more players spending whole rounds dead, it's easy to understand why people are upset. I'm not going to say there is a perfect solution, as a perfect solution for anything is an impossibility. But one thing that can majorly improve the standings here is opening up to much more community feedback. More polls, more threads like this one, more effort to stay in touch with the player base.